Old(ish??) hens prone to illness?

[WannabeHomsteader]

I have 2 laying hens and 3 pullets. The layers are ISA browns, both a little over 2 years old and still laying every other day or so. I always feel like they're struggling with issues - poor feather growth, unresolved respiratory issues, just weird stuff I can't find causes or solutions for. Furthermore, they're problems that my pullets don't deal with yet, that I have seen. I have reviewed my management practices, space requirements, cleanliness and biosecurity... I don't claim to be the perfect chicken keeper by any stretch, but I am doing my best.

To be clear, I am not looking for treatment plans or suggestions on making them better. Here are my questions I have...
- I know since they're production birds, their lifespan will probably be shorter than average. But do they age faster overall? Or is it only their reproductive system that goes kaput, after laying intensively? I'm trying so hard to figure out why they're my "problem birds".
- When you end up with birds that struggle with their health, when do you decide culling is the better option? How do you evaluate pros and cons? If it helps, these hens are like not-quite-pets for me. I definitely enjoy them, but I don't feel the same way as I would with a dog or a companion animal. And the constant issue management is starting to take the enjoyment out of chicken keeping for me.

 

[BDutch]

I never had Isa browns or any other commercial hybrid. So I cant say anything other than from reading.
These chickens often seem to live shorter than heritage breeds and barnyard mixes. But 3-7 years is still a normal lifespan. However it is possible that your 2 isa browns are less healthy than normal. But we need much much more info than you gave us to make such a statement.

One thing that crossed my mind is that they have started to moult. Its normal chickens will look more miserable and lay less eggs when they start to moult. Many stop to lay completely.

How do the feathers look like?
Best give the hens chick feed with oyster flakes on the side, and maybe some extra proteins (sunflower seeds, mealworms) to give them a boost. Vitamin supplements (line fresh herbs) may do some good too.

If you have the feeling your chickens have a miserable life and its not improving , it’s up to you whether you want to end their lives. But do consider to wait several months to make such a decision, if you don’t mind the egg drop. Chickens often look healthy again when the moulting has finished.

 

[Mrs. K]

Generally - I would expect these birds to live 2.5 - 3.5 years old. However, any bird that is not working out in your flock, should be moved on to someone else's flock, or to the freezer.

Dutch is right - molting hens look terrible, like they have partied hard all night and are hung over and crabby. The end of August, feathers are old, dusty, and kind of ragged. Perfectly normal. When they get through it, they will look a lot better.

Chickens do get old, and their feet, toes, and beak definitely look old, sometimes they are stiff and cranky. Older birds can add a lot to a multi-generational flock.

I try and add some each year, and let some go. But do not feel obligated to keep a bird that is not working out in your flock.

Mrs K

 

[WannabeHomsteader]

But we need much much more info than you gave us to make such a statement.

Sorry if I was a little too vague. What kind of info would be needed?

If you have the feeling your chickens have a miserable life and its not improving , it’s up to you whether you want to end their lives. But do consider to wait several months to make such a decision, if you don’t mind the egg drop. Chickens often look healthy again when the moulting has finished.

I don't honestly know whether they're miserable or not. Both peck, scratch, and go nuts for mealworms just like normal chickens. But one has had a bluish comb due to poor oxygenation (something respiratory) for a few months, and the other has been consistently half-bald since I got her a year ago (BDutch, we actually discussed this hen in a separate post awhile back). But I have seen them molt, and this seems different. So, I don't know that this will clear up with the next molt. They also have some sort of scabbing going on on the face, and I don't know why. I have only culled when it was critical, or I KNEW the bird would not get better. I'm not so sure about these, they're just middle-of-the-road. Not great, but not visibly miserable.

Dutch is right - molting hens look terrible, like they have partied hard all night and are hung over and crabby. The end of August, feathers are old, dusty, and kind of ragged. Perfectly normal. When they get through it, they will look a lot better.

Chickens do get old, and their feet, toes, and beak definitely look old, sometimes they are stiff and cranky. Older birds can add a lot to a multi-generational flock.

Thanks for the info. That's why I asked about aging chickens - I have never had a certifiable "old", creaky, cranky hen. These are my oldest hens ever, so I don't know what old age really looks like in a bird. They are not stiff and cranky, just constantly coming up with ailments I can't seem to fix. I thought about the possibility of just having baseline unhealthy birds. I wondered if their status as a production hybrid would contribute to that. I was also wanting to know if anyone had advice on choosing to cull from an overall wellness perspective (keeping only the healthiest birds), rather than strictly culling in emergencies.

I have thrown treatments at them and nothing has stuck. Again, I am not necessarily looking for more answers on how to fix them. I am trying to decide if they're even worth keeping if they are not healthy. I could keep trying solutions, but is it worth the effort and money? It sounds cold-hearted, but I am frankly not interesting in putting "bandaids" on them forever.

If you'd like to take a look at the hens, I have posted about them here:
Balding hen: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/2yo-hen-molting-forever.1670025/ (@BDutch this is where we chatted about chick feed)
Wheezing hen: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/causes-for-wheezing-and-sneezing.1670413/
Scabbing: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/scabbing-sticktight-fleas.1674842/

Thank you both for your insight!!

 

[bravecoconut]

If she was bald when you got her, still hasn't recovered and both have been sickly, the first thing I lean toward is poor breeding. Some people breed just to breed and make money. They don't care about the animal's health and livelihood. They don't care about the "product" because to them they is just that, a "product." It's the same as people breeding the German Shepherd to the point they have no hips, elbows, and a roached back. It's the same as Thoroughbreds with no feet to walk on. If you have checked all of your care practices and feel you are doing everything right, then trust your gut. If they are still acting good, eating, and laying, I would just keep on keeping on. If they're bringing you down emotionally, offer them to someone else who might want to take on a challenge. If you feel it's right to cull them then you do you. I personally wouldn't want to eat a sickly bird though I'm sure I've eaten hundreds. Have you seen Cornish X's? They look terrible even when they are healthy and free ranging! I feed my dogs raw so that would be an option. You could also offer them for large snake food. I'm not trying to sound crass, I'm just giving you options. Everyone is different and everything has to eat something.

 

[WannabeHomsteader]

If she was bald when you got her, still hasn't recovered and both have been sickly, the first thing I lean toward is poor breeding. Some people breed just to breed and make money. They don't care about the animal's health and livelihood. They don't care about the "product" because to them they is just that, a "product." It's the same as people breeding the German Shepherd to the point they have no hips, elbows, and a roached back. It's the same as Thoroughbreds with no feet to walk on. If you have checked all of your care practices and feel you are doing everything right, then trust your gut. If they are still acting good, eating, and laying, I would just keep on keeping on. If they're bringing you down emotionally, offer them to someone else who might want to take on a challenge. If you feel it's right to cull them then you do you. I personally wouldn't want to eat a sickly bird though I'm sure I've eaten hundreds. Have you seen Cornish X's? They look terrible even when they are healthy and free ranging! I feed my dogs raw so that would be an option. You could also offer them for large snake food. I'm not trying to sound crass, I'm just giving you options. Everyone is different and everything has to eat something.

Thanks for the response. I don't know if I'm doing everything right, to be honest, but I do feel like this is more complicated than it ought to be. Maybe I haven't been keeping chickens long enough to know what "complicated" or "normal" is when it comes to caring for chickens.
I got 4 of them them as adult layers when they were about 1.5 yrs old, last August. They had lived on a local free-range egg farm, and the farm was rotating their old layers out by selling them. From what I've read, my impression of ISAs in general is that they are bred to lay, lay, lay for that first year or so, and then the length rest of their lifespan is the luck of the draw, depending on how well they handle that intense laying. Bred to be a little disposable. They were my first-ever chickens, so I didn't know what to look for as far as good health when I got them, or even ask what breed they were. They were all a bit scruffy when I bought them, but I chalked that up due to a stress molt (from moving) and that they were due for their first real molt anyway. Anyway, I say all that to add to your point about breeders viewing the animal as a product to sell. I don't blame the farm - I asked for birds and got some. Just wondering if I have bitten off more than I can chew with buying older ISAs.

The thing that's really stumping me is the lack of improvement or deterioration. I'd think they'd get better or die, but this has been a slow process for both of them. Where I live, I can keep a maximum of 6 birds, and the idea of clearing out "space" to make room for healthier birds is very appealing. Which is why I'm considering culling. But I also don't want my frustration to lead me to throw in the towel prematurely. This is the first time I've considered culling from a general management perspective, rather than an immediate "this bird will die anyway" situation.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I was also wanting to know if anyone had advice on choosing to cull from an overall wellness perspective (keeping only the healthiest birds), rather than strictly culling in emergencies.

If you were planning on hatching any of the eggs, absolutely. Only hatch from the best. You are not planning on hatching eggs so it gets murkier.

It has to be your call. Your goals, set-up, and conditions are very different from mine. It doesn't matter what I would do since mine are different.

However, I cull for many different reasons. The emergencies and such, of course. I do hatch eggs so I eliminate any with obvious deficiencies I do not want in my flock. I also cull for behaviors. Solve for the peace of the overall flock, not any one individual. And if one is making my life harder, I remove it. I have some tolerance but not a lot.

Overall wellness perspective is one of the factors I use to decide which to cull, but it is not the only one.

 

[bravecoconut]

Thanks for the response. I don't know if I'm doing everything right, to be honest, but I do feel like this is more complicated than it ought to be. Maybe I haven't been keeping chickens long enough to know what "complicated" or "normal" is when it comes to caring for chickens.
I got 4 of them them as adult layers when they were about 1.5 yrs old, last August. They had lived on a local free-range egg farm, and the farm was rotating their old layers out by selling them. From what I've read, my impression of ISAs in general is that they are bred to lay, lay, lay for that first year or so, and then the length rest of their lifespan is the luck of the draw, depending on how well they handle that intense laying. Bred to be a little disposable. They were my first-ever chickens, so I didn't know what to look for as far as good health when I got them, or even ask what breed they were. They were all a bit scruffy when I bought them, but I chalked that up due to a stress molt (from moving) and that they were due for their first real molt anyway. Anyway, I say all that to add to your point about breeders viewing the animal as a product to sell. I don't blame the farm - I asked for birds and got some. Just wondering if I have bitten off more than I can chew with buying older ISAs.

The thing that's really stumping me is the lack of improvement or deterioration. I'd think they'd get better or die, but this has been a slow process for both of them. Where I live, I can keep a maximum of 6 birds, and the idea of clearing out "space" to make room for healthier birds is very appealing. Which is why I'm considering culling. But I also don't want my frustration to lead me to throw in the towel prematurely. This is the first time I've considered culling from a general management perspective, rather than an immediate "this bird will die anyway" situation.

You have to do what you feel is right. It sounds to me that they are causing you nothing but anguish watching what you feel is them suffering. It may be that they aren't suffering as much as you feel they are. You can look raggedy but still feel okay! The "moth-eaten" look around their bum and neck could just be their body prioritizing the protein they eat toward egg production instead of feather production. It's actually common in overbred birds that their sole purpose is pumping out as many eggs as possible. Again, it may look terrible but doesn't necessarily bother them being bald. Ultimately, you, YOU deserve to be happy and enjoy your birds. If you're not enjoying them, what's the point in having them?

 

[Mrs. K]

I have never doctored a bird. I think some people just get chickens so they have something to doctor. I would let these two go. I do want my chickens to look good, and be healthy. Thing is, you should rotate birds into and out of the flock. Or they all get old at once.

Let these go.
Mrs K

 

[WannabeHomsteader]

I have never doctored a bird. I think some people just get chickens so they have something to doctor. I would let these two go. I do want my chickens to look good, and be healthy. Thing is, you should rotate birds into and out of the flock. Or they all get old at once.

Let these go.
Mrs K

That's the direction I'm leaning. I do not want chickens just to have something to doctor. The more hands off, the better for me. You mentioned you have never doctored a bird - can you elaborate? Does your flock just not have many issues, or do you let them sort themselves out when they arise? Or, do you cull at first sign of needing doctoring?
I ask because in the duration of the last year, my flock has had one issue or another. Some were fixable (impacted crop, scaly leg mites, injury) and some weren't (egg binding, prolapse). So to hear you say you have NEVER doctored a bird...that is like a foreign concept to me. I didn't know anyone could do that. If my experience is an average experience for most, then I may re-evaluate owning chickens. I enjoy my (healthy) chickens, but honestly, I didn't expect chickens to require this much maintenance. They need care, of course, but not constant fretting on.