Older chickens dying with paralysis

[alisoncrary]

I'm hoping you all can help with some questionable deaths of chickens that are at least 5 years old.. We had a flock of 12 chickens, 6 of which we bought fully grown in 2020 from a local individual who said they were 6mo-1 year old at that time. Of those original older 6, we have lost 4. Two of the Rhode Island Reds died about 12-18 months ago, several months apart from each other and appeared to just have passed peacefully in their sleep. As first time chicken raisers, from what we read these could have been a normal age related deaths since their age was uncertain. However, the last two deaths have me questioning things.

On 5/10/25, during a week of an extreme and quick cold to hot weather shift, our barred rock hen from that original group of 6 started showing neurological signs; her head twisted to the left and was twitching, while her right wing drooped. We did a ton of research but after isolating her and giving her electrolytes, probiotics and sunflower seeds for a possible selenium deficiency. She rallied, and we eventually put her back with the rest of the flock. She seemed content and back to normal although slower than our younger chickens, then passed in her sleep 7 weeks later (about 3 weeks ago).

I've continued giving electrolytes in the water, as well as probiotics and a dose of liquid Safeguard wormer (we did the syringe application for the whole flock last summer after losing the Rhode Island Red, just to be safe, but that was difficult to say the least so hence the water application this time). This medicated water is usually presented chilled/frozen with treats in it during the warmest part of the day so all the birds are quite eager to partake. Yet we've still had a few with diarrhea, most notably an older orange chicken from that original group of 6 who has really been slowing down, and we suspected for the last month is nearing her end.

Yesterday morning she walked slowly out of the coop and laid down. I then noticed that one leg was stretched out awkwardly and she was showing weakness in one wing. I separated her from the others and made a depression in the sand for her to be supported, and she rested there for 24 hours showing some interest in food and water before passing away.

My question is if anyone thinks this sounds like normal age related deaths or something we should be more concerned about? Marek's seems to primarily affect younger chickens, right? All of our 12 chickens have come from private individuals so I have no way to know if they were vaccinated as chicks. But all 4 deaths over the last 18 months have been of those original chickens that are at least 5-6 years old, maybe more.

Or does this sound at all like coccidiosis? A few others have diarrhea but normal energy (considering the heat). I have not noticed a change in comb color, and I cannot find any sign of parasites on their bodies, in the coop, or in their poo. They are fed layer pellets, have 2 sources of fresh water and the daily chilled special water usually with garden greens, scratch or other things mixed in for interest.

What else should I consider or research? Thank you in advance- I'm so grateful for this knowledgeable and helpful community!

 

[coach723]

What I have learned about Marek's from experience, is that it does not always follow the literature and published information precisely, or sometimes even closely. I have lost older birds to it more than younger birds. But there are also other things that can look like Marek's but are not. Older hens can pass from reproductive problems that include infections and cancers. There are other virus's that can affect them as well. If you lose another with the same or similar symptoms it would be a good idea to have a professional necropsy done, that way, with labs, you will have a better idea. Having multiple losses in a short period of time can all be from different things, or can be related. It's hard to know without knowing the actual cause. In many states it's very reasonable, I will attach a resource listing labs by state, call your nearest and ask particulars about price and shipping or delivery, so you can plan for the next if needed. As for the runny poops, you said you've been dealing with high heat, and when that happens water consumption usually goes way up as they try to cool themselves, and that can cause runny droppings. So that may be the biggest reason, particularly if they are acting normally. Older birds, any bird with an underlying health condition (known or unknown), and fat birds, also have more trouble with the heat. I've lost one to heat stroke this summer already. If a bird is sick with something else, then the high heat may push them over the edge.
https://www.metzerfarms.com/poultry-labs.html

 

[alisoncrary]

What I have learned about Marek's from experience, is that it does not always follow the literature and published information precisely, or sometimes even closely. I have lost older birds to it more than younger birds. But there are also other things that can look like Marek's but are not. Older hens can pass from reproductive problems that include infections and cancers. There are other virus's that can affect them as well. If you lose another with the same or similar symptoms it would be a good idea to have a professional necropsy done, that way, with labs, you will have a better idea. Having multiple losses in a short period of time can all be from different things, or can be related. It's hard to know without knowing the actual cause. In many states it's very reasonable, I will attach a resource listing labs by state, call your nearest and ask particulars about price and shipping or delivery, so you can plan for the next if needed. As for the runny poops, you said you've been dealing with high heat, and when that happens water consumption usually goes way up as they try to cool themselves, and that can cause runny droppings. So that may be the biggest reason, particularly if they are acting normally. Older birds, any bird with an underlying health condition (known or unknown), and fat birds, also have more trouble with the heat. I've lost one to heat stroke this summer already. If a bird is sick with something else, then the high heat may push them over the edge.
https://www.metzerfarms.com/poultry-labs.html

Thank you for your reply, that's good to know that Marek's can often affect older hens as well. Also good to consider other reproductive problems, I have not really looked into those yet but that's a good thought.

I did call our vet earlier today to ask about the pricing for a necroscopy and they said it would start at $300 but likely go a fair bit higher depending on the tests they had to run... that seemed a bit steep to us at this current season of life, but does that sound like an average rate? I sure hope we don't lose another to anything similar, but that's good advise and something we need to consider if we do. Tomorrow I'll call the Arizona lab from the link you sent- thank you!

Yes, we are in the high 90s this week so my other neighbors are also reporting diarrhea that could very well be heat/water consumption related. It's hard to know.. how do you know when you lose one due to heat stroke vs an unknown virus/other issue? Are there certain symptoms that you specifically attribute to heat stroke?

Thank you!

 

[coach723]

State labs are often much more reasonable than vets, for necropsy.
For heat stroke, the most obvious thing is body temperature, it gets really high. If you find one dead that hasn't been laying there for many hours, they will be hot under the wings. I usually open mine up to get a liver temp, just to be sure, and too look for other health issues that might contribute (like fatty liver disease). I've had liver temps in the 115 to 117 range at the time I found them, you can feel that body heat under the wings and it's definitely hot. If the birds are panting, holding wings out, showing other signs of heat stress, then heat stroke should be considered if you have a sudden loss. I did save one that I saw go down. I keep a bucket of water in the shade, not cold, just cooler in the shade, so it's ready if needed. I dunked the bird (non responsive but still breathing) into the bucket up to her chin, including as much wattles as I could safely get in the water. After several minutes (seemed like forever) she began to come around. At that point I brought her into the house, continued to cool her in cool, not cold, water in the house. When she was able to get her legs under herself I started hydrating her. She stayed in the house out of the heat for about a week, and then I started taking her out for short periods during the coolest part of the day, and slowly built up. She survived and lived several years after that, and I always kept a close eye on her during high heat.

 

[coach723]

I deal with high heat and humidity a lot in Florida. The most successful things that have worked for me in helping them cool are leaving a hose running on trickle in a shaded spot, that they can stand in (occasionally I will see a bird laying in it) to cool themselves, I keep puppy pans filled with water in the shade that they can stand in- they are small enough and shallow enough that the birds are comfortable with them (I tried a kiddie pool with an inch of water in it, they were terrified of it and never used it), and box fans placed in safe places to move the air. I have hung frozen jugs of water in front of the fans at times to help cool that air a bit. And a sprinkler running nearby, upwind, not in the run, can help cool the air a little bit. And providing as much shade as you can. Tarps can help, but they have to be hung high enough that they don't radiate heat down on the birds as that will just make an oven.
These are the puppy pans I use, the 3 quart ones (you can also get galvanized ones, or galvanized hog pans at feed stores, but those rust), these do not rust and hold up forever (they are on sale right now!): https://jefferspet.com/products/8-ss-puppy-dish-79101?_pos=1&_sid=5668ed5dd&_ss=r

 

[alisoncrary]

I deal with high heat and humidity a lot in Florida. The most successful things that have worked for me in helping them cool are leaving a hose running on trickle in a shaded spot, that they can stand in (occasionally I will see a bird laying in it) to cool themselves, I keep puppy pans filled with water in the shade that they can stand in- they are small enough and shallow enough that the birds are comfortable with them (I tried a kiddie pool with an inch of water in it, they were terrified of it and never used it), and box fans placed in safe places to move the air. I have hung frozen jugs of water in front of the fans at times to help cool that air a bit. And a sprinkler running nearby, upwind, not in the run, can help cool the air a little bit. And providing as much shade as you can. Tarps can help, but they have to be hung high enough that they don't radiate heat down on the birds as that will just make an oven.
These are the puppy pans I use, the 3 quart ones (you can also get galvanized ones, or galvanized hog pans at feed stores, but those rust), these do not rust and hold up forever (they are on sale right now!): https://jefferspet.com/products/8-ss-puppy-dish-79101?_pos=1&_sid=5668ed5dd&_ss=r

I like those ideas, I think I'll try implementing some more of those! I do have a small fan in their coop along with several vents to keep the air flowing while laying/roosting, but like the idea of a fan outdoors too. They have a decent amount of shade from trees and buildings in separate areas with varying amounts of wind (we don't have much humidity compared to you except when a monsoon storm blows in as it did this week, so that could have been a factor in the hen we just lost). I have water in a rubber feed pan about the same size as your puppy pan and in an old plastic tub that they will climb into but similarly to you they didn't like the kiddie pool I had in their before even when filled with wet dirt and things to eat, so that's gone. Thanks for those ideas!

 

[alisoncrary]

State labs are often much more reasonable than vets, for necropsy.
For heat stroke, the most obvious thing is body temperature, it gets really high. If you find one dead that hasn't been laying there for many hours, they will be hot under the wings. I usually open mine up to get a liver temp, just to be sure, and too look for other health issues that might contribute (like fatty liver disease). I've had liver temps in the 115 to 117 range at the time I found them, you can feel that body heat under the wings and it's definitely hot. If the birds are panting, holding wings out, showing other signs of heat stress, then heat stroke should be considered if you have a sudden loss. I did save one that I saw go down. I keep a bucket of water in the shade, not cold, just cooler in the shade, so it's ready if needed. I dunked the bird (non responsive but still breathing) into the bucket up to her chin, including as much wattles as I could safely get in the water. After several minutes (seemed like forever) she began to come around. At that point I brought her into the house, continued to cool her in cool, not cold, water in the house. When she was able to get her legs under herself I started hydrating her. She stayed in the house out of the heat for about a week, and then I started taking her out for short periods during the coolest part of the day, and slowly built up. She survived and lived several years after that, and I always kept a close eye on her during high heat.

Wow that's great that you were able to save that hen from heat stroke! I do have several waters in the shade so I'll keep that in mind if something like that ever happens. I handled the one we just lost a fair bit and she didn't seem exceessively hot- showed none of the symptoms you mentioned, so maybe it was something else. Some of the others pant during the hottest part of the day but only rarely do they hold their wings out here even when we are in the high 90s, probably related to the lower humidity. I'll call those state labs this morning, thank you!

 

[Bawkbok]

Ours also won't stand in pans of water.

I can attest to the tarp for shade creating a heat island effect in the run. This is our only option for shade when the sun is directly overhead. We hang a box fan in the corner of the run up high pointing inward to move the hot air around. We place another box fan opposite end of the run at ground level, which they frequently stand in front of, which moves the hot air being blown around out toward the other side of the run. I stood in the middle of the run with a thermometer and above waist level it rose to 98 degrees, below waist level it lowered to 86; so I know the combination of fan placement has some positive affect, especially when the temps are in the mid 90s as they have consistently been for weeks. Humidity and high dew points do play a factor as well.

What I found they like best is making a puddle in the middle of the run, deep shade and in the air flow, the water cools the dirt and they stand or lie there cooling their feet and bellies.

A cold slab of watermelon also helps to keep them hydrated, along with frequent changes of refrigerated water (which cools down quickly) with a frozen hard ice pack in the waterer ensures they have cool water until the next water change.

Just a reminder to watch your broody hens. We have a pullet extremely broody. Without a rooster or the intention of raising chickens currently, I watch closely to see who goes to nest when. I check hourly for an egg. Once laid, I push her out and take the egg, forcing her out into the run. She is not happy but I don't want her dying in the nest from heat exhaustion.

 

[Eggcessive]

Unfortunately AZ is one of the more expensive states for a state vet necropsy. Neighboring state CA is about $30 compared to $260 or so in AZ. States with vet schools and poultry departments, or large amounts of poultry farms are also more reasonable. Some states like WV don’t even offer state vet necropsies. It is good to mention that you are requesting a necropsy for a backyard chicken, not a commercial one. Here is a link for the state lab in AZ:
https://azvdl.arizona.edu/services/necropsy

 

[alisoncrary]

Ours also won't stand in pans of water.

I can attest to the tarp for shade creating a heat island effect in the run. This is our only option for shade when the sun is directly overhead. We hang a box fan in the corner of the run up high pointing inward to move the hot air around. We place another box fan opposite end of the run at ground level, which they frequently stand in front of, which moves the hot air being blown around out toward the other side of the run. I stood in the middle of the run with a thermometer and above waist level it rose to 98 degrees, below waist level it lowered to 86; so I know the combination of fan placement has some positive affect, especially when the temps are in the mid 90s as they have consistently been for weeks. Humidity and high dew points do play a factor as well.

What I found they like best is making a puddle in the middle of the run, deep shade and in the air flow, the water cools the dirt and they stand or lie there cooling their feet and bellies.

A cold slab of watermelon also helps to keep them hydrated, along with frequent changes of refrigerated water (which cools down quickly) with a frozen hard ice pack in the waterer ensures they have cool water until the next water change.

Just a reminder to watch your broody hens. We have a pullet extremely broody. Without a rooster or the intention of raising chickens currently, I watch closely to see who goes to nest when. I check hourly for an egg. Once laid, I push her out and take the egg, forcing her out into the run. She is not happy but I don't want her dying in the nest from heat exhaustion.

thank you for those suggestions! we've got a decent size run with some good natural shade and several water options. we have a broody hen too, and I do the same thing!