Olive egger breeding question

[Lady of McCamley]

I LOVE this post! Great information!

I'm trying my hand at olive eggers too this year, since they're so sensational to the public. Ok, they're really pretty and I like them too.

In one pen I have a mature flock of CCL over cuckoo Marans and CL hens. I just hatched out my first CLxCM chicks from this (3) and I'm suspecting it's 2 cockerels and a pullet (of course).

I have another pen set up for a splash blue copper Marans rooster over cuckoos, blue copper Marans, CCL, and super blues egg layers. These are only biddies right now so it'll be about 8 months before I report progress.

I'll retain a few chicks of both sexes from each cross.

If I breed my CL over CM pullets/hens to CM rooster will this preserve the intensity of the brown wash? And save me from having to line breed?

I'm going to hang out here and see how these projects go!

Didn't get back to you on this question...sorry...got lost in the thread.

If you breed your Cuckoo Marans rooster over your CL/Cuckoo Marans mixes, you should retain the brown wash as long as that rooster has good genetics for it. You *should* also get a boost from whatever genes were passed down from the Marans mother...but there's no guarantees for that, as stated, as I seem to see about 50/50 of the brown pass down as there are so many genes (about 13) that have to line up and they have to all point to the darkest color tone.

Do be aware that breeding Cuckoo to Cuckoo you'll always get barring/cuckoo without any sex linking.

If you put a Blue Copper Marans rooster over your Cream Legbar hens, you will have sexlinked chicks as the males will be barred while the females will not. It works really well with my Barnevelder rooster over Cream Legbars. The boys look pretty much like a CL rooster while the girls have this gorgeous black base and gold penciling that is stunning. With the blue feathering, you get 50/50 blue or black in the chicks which won't distract from the sex linking.....just a thought.

There are many ways to get to olive. One is to use a good purebred rooster (2 blue genes) over really good dark layer hens (Marans, Penedescenca, Barnevelder, etc.) and set only those eggs that are the darkest. You know you will always get blue shells, but the olive will vary depending upon how much brown wash is passed down from mum.

That's why it is nice if you get a boost of brown from dad too, but it does put you into a waiting game as you wait for the pullets to grow up to see who got the blue shell gene (remember 50/50 from passing down from a hybrid).

To kick this up a notch, for fun and efficacy, I used my Barney over a Splash Marans to get dark layer (and check how well brown passes)...I kept the 2 grey hens....darker brown layers B/SpM...remember grey feathers.

I then put my Barney over Cream Legbar and get olive eggers that are black with gold pencilling and head tufts....olive egger (about middle range)...remember gold pencilled on black.

I then put Barney over my black Isbar-Marans olive egger (from a breeder eggs) and have gotten F2 olive eggers (light, medium, and dark olive), all black birds.

I now can look out at my yard and know exactly who is who and who lays what because of their feather colors.

I've painted myself literally into a black corner with the Olive eggers being black, which line I will keep.

But to add more variety and some different lines, I will use Barney over a Wheaten Marans (on wish list) to produce some olive eggers that will be wheaten and muffed.

You can really use the feather genetics to help you sort out your breedings as you diversify your lines. For me, it's fun and I don't have to leg band and worry about regularly checking them to make sure they aren't too tight.

So if you are planning on diversity in the flock...let the sex linking and feather base colors work to your advantage....at least the first generation...it gets a bit trickier using mixed breeds generations after that unless you've got base black (which tends to be dominant...I'll see what I get with F2 black oliver eggers) or dominant white (never use unless you want all white birds).

Just what I do.
LofMc

 

[theuglychick]

Brilliant! Great information. I'm going to have to read it several times. And actually draw myself out a pedigree chart. I'll let y'all know what I come up with.

 

[theuglychick]

Didn't get back to you on this question...sorry...got lost in the thread.

If you breed your Cuckoo Marans rooster over your CL/Cuckoo Marans mixes, you should retain the brown wash as long as that rooster has good genetics for it. You *should* also get a boost from whatever genes were passed down from the Marans mother...but there's no guarantees for that, as stated, as I seem to see about 50/50 of the brown pass down as there are so many genes (about 13) that have to line up and they have to all point to the darkest color tone.

Do be aware that breeding Cuckoo to Cuckoo you'll always get barring/cuckoo without any sex linking.

If you put a Blue Copper Marans rooster over your Cream Legbar hens, you will have sexlinked chicks as the males will be barred while the females will not. It works really well with my Barnevelder rooster over Cream Legbars. The boys look pretty much like a CL rooster while the girls have this gorgeous black base and gold penciling that is stunning. With the blue feathering, you get 50/50 blue or black in the chicks which won't distract from the sex linking.....just a thought.

There are many ways to get to olive. One is to use a good purebred rooster (2 blue genes) over really good dark layer hens (Marans, Penedescenca, Barnevelder, etc.) and set only those eggs that are the darkest. You know you will always get blue shells, but the olive will vary depending upon how much brown wash is passed down from mum.

That's why it is nice if you get a boost of brown from dad too, but it does put you into a waiting game as you wait for the pullets to grow up to see who got the blue shell gene (remember 50/50 from passing down from a hybrid).

To kick this up a notch, for fun and efficacy, I used my Barney over a Splash Marans to get dark layer (and check how well brown passes)...I kept the 2 grey hens....darker brown layers B/SpM...remember grey feathers.

I then put my Barney over Cream Legbar and get olive eggers that are black with gold pencilling and head tufts....olive egger (about middle range)...remember gold pencilled on black.

I then put Barney over my black Isbar-Marans olive egger (from a breeder eggs) and have gotten F2 olive eggers (light, medium, and dark olive), all black birds.

I now can look out at my yard and know exactly who is who and who lays what because of their feather colors.

I've painted myself literally into a black corner with the Olive eggers being black, which line I will keep.

But to add more variety and some different lines, I will use Barney over a Wheaten Marans (on wish list) to produce some olive eggers that will be wheaten and muffed.

You can really use the feather genetics to help you sort out your breedings as you diversify your lines. For me, it's fun and I don't have to leg band and worry about regularly checking them to make sure they aren't too tight.

So if you are planning on diversity in the flock...let the sex linking and feather base colors work to your advantage....at least the first generation...it gets a bit trickier using mixed breeds generations after that unless you've got base black (which tends to be dominant...I'll see what I get with F2 black oliver eggers) or dominant white (never use unless you want all white birds).

Just what I do.
LofMc

And thank you so much!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

You are very welcome...have fun with your project...and yes, do keep us updated.
LofMc

 

[Lady of McCamley]

And to help you with feather color predicting, this is the simplified feather calculator (you can work up to the full one as you gain experience):

http://kippenjungle.nl/Overzicht.htm#kipcalculator

This one has nice clips of pictures, but doesn't always work (I have to enable unauthorized scripts in my Chrome Browser then run the calculator to get it to work).
https://www.breedbook.org/?action=geneticscalculator&tab=CHICKEN

 

[Athena2344]

So what could i expect with having a pure BCM rooster and 2 pure blue-laying Americaunas?

 

[Lady of McCamley]

So what could i expect with having a pure BCM rooster and 2 pure blue-laying Americaunas?

There is no way of knowing what your BCM has gentically until you test him. Let's assume he comes from a good line with solid brown coloring for the eggs.

You spelled Ameraucana as Americauna....it's a hard word to spell, but if you bought the birds from a store or a breeder who spelled it Americauna, then you do not have pure blue laying Ameraucanas but likely the hybrid Easter Egger which means you may have only 1 blue gene to work with in the hens.

You can check for breed standard of Ameraucana to help determine if you have a full blooded Ameraucana here: http://ameraucanaalliance.org/photos.html

Your BCM rooster will hopefully supply the genetics for brown wash. Placed over a 2 blue gene hen, you will get olive eggers, varying degrees, 100% as all offspring will carry darker brown wash and 1 blue gene.

If your hens are Easter Eggers rather than true Ameraucana, and they have not been line bred to recapture the blue genes (some EE lines have been), then your hen will have 1 blue gene. She will pass that down statistically 50% of the time.

So you get 50% olive layers and 50% brown layers, statistically.

Since you've got a BCM rooster, and are dealing with the hens for the blue genes, you can continue to breed back to your BCM rooster and set only the darkest olive eggs. You will continue to see a 50% olive, usually deeper successive breed backs, and 50% brown offspring. If you set the brown eggs bred back to the BCM, you will have bred out your blue genes but may see the browns deepen.

If you take a OE rooster from that first breeding, or any subsequent olive egg, you have the 50/50 chance of that rooster having 1 blue gene. You have to test breed to see if he does have a blue gene by raising some of his daughters.

Once he has proven himself, you can then take that hybrid BCM/EE rooster with 1 blue gene and breed back to the original EE's (if that is indeed what you have) to begin to recapture blue genes.

Hybrid bred to Hybrid (1 blue gene for each parent) gets you:
25% 2 blue genes, your darkest blue or green layers
50% 1 blue gene, lighter blue or green shades
25% no blue gene, brown layers

You can see taking those darkest olive/blue or green eggs from the best hens bred back to the EE rooster will recapture a line to 50% 2 blue gene layers and 50% 1 blue gene layers....with potential for some brown throw backs.

LofMc

 

[Athena2344]

They are ameracaunas, sorry

 

[JenEgrrrL]

Didn't get back to you on this question...sorry...got lost in the thread.

If you breed your Cuckoo Marans rooster over your CL/Cuckoo Marans mixes, you should retain the brown wash as long as that rooster has good genetics for it. You *should* also get a boost from whatever genes were passed down from the Marans mother...but there's no guarantees for that, as stated, as I seem to see about 50/50 of the brown pass down as there are so many genes (about 13) that have to line up and they have to all point to the darkest color tone.

Do be aware that breeding Cuckoo to Cuckoo you'll always get barring/cuckoo without any sex linking.

If you put a Blue Copper Marans rooster over your Cream Legbar hens, you will have sexlinked chicks as the males will be barred while the females will not. It works really well with my Barnevelder rooster over Cream Legbars. The boys look pretty much like a CL rooster while the girls have this gorgeous black base and gold penciling that is stunning. With the blue feathering, you get 50/50 blue or black in the chicks which won't distract from the sex linking.....just a thought.

There are many ways to get to olive. One is to use a good purebred rooster (2 blue genes) over really good dark layer hens (Marans, Penedescenca, Barnevelder, etc.) and set only those eggs that are the darkest. You know you will always get blue shells, but the olive will vary depending upon how much brown wash is passed down from mum.

That's why it is nice if you get a boost of brown from dad too, but it does put you into a waiting game as you wait for the pullets to grow up to see who got the blue shell gene (remember 50/50 from passing down from a hybrid).

To kick this up a notch, for fun and efficacy, I used my Barney over a Splash Marans to get dark layer (and check how well brown passes)...I kept the 2 grey hens....darker brown layers B/SpM...remember grey feathers.

I then put my Barney over Cream Legbar and get olive eggers that are black with gold pencilling and head tufts....olive egger (about middle range)...remember gold pencilled on black.

I then put Barney over my black Isbar-Marans olive egger (from a breeder eggs) and have gotten F2 olive eggers (light, medium, and dark olive), all black birds.

I now can look out at my yard and know exactly who is who and who lays what because of their feather colors.

I've painted myself literally into a black corner with the Olive eggers being black, which line I will keep.

But to add more variety and some different lines, I will use Barney over a Wheaten Marans (on wish list) to produce some olive eggers that will be wheaten and muffed.

You can really use the feather genetics to help you sort out your breedings as you diversify your lines. For me, it's fun and I don't have to leg band and worry about regularly checking them to make sure they aren't too tight.

So if you are planning on diversity in the flock...let the sex linking and feather base colors work to your advantage....at least the first generation...it gets a bit trickier using mixed breeds generations after that unless you've got base black (which tends to be dominant...I'll see what I get with F2 black oliver eggers) or dominant white (never use unless you want all white birds).

Just what I do.
LofMc

I know this thread is dated to you all, but it’s new to me! Thanks to the OP for this thread to reference as I’m looking into creating olive Eggers and seeking out best ways to start! @Lady of McCamley I am so impressed & inspired by your methods! I’m curious about your choice of a Barney rooster over a Marans. Is it temperament, feathering options, the darkness of egg he imparts, a mix of it all? I’m currently drooling over Barnevelders and blue copper/wheaten Marans. Not sure which breed I want to go with for a rooster bc I love them all! Would be most interested in your take on one over the other

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I know this thread is dated to you all, but it’s new to me! Thanks to the OP for this thread to reference as I’m looking into creating olive Eggers and seeking out best ways to start! @Lady of McCamley I am so impressed & inspired by your methods! I’m curious about your choice of a Barney rooster over a Marans. Is it temperament, feathering options, the darkness of egg he imparts, a mix of it all? I’m currently drooling over Barnevelders and blue copper/wheaten Marans. Not sure which breed I want to go with for a rooster bc I love them all! Would be most interested in your take on one over the other

Thank you for the kind words. I'd like to say all was astute calculation, but it was partly planning and partly luck of the draw.

I hatched Black Copper Marans eggs from a high quality, highly respected breeder of OE in my area. However I found I simply did not like the temperament of the pure Marans, at least this line, and it was pretty much who to buy from. The hens were assertive, not overly friendly, and noisy. Plus the darker the egg line the poorer the layer, typical of the really dark layers. Also the rooster honestly was a snot. I actually sold him as a teen as her line was that coveted..with full disclosure of his temperament. The only rooster I ever sold.

I liked the Isbar/Marans OEs I hatched from her better, cooled I think by the Isbar. However her pure Isbar (a rare blue layer) line was flawed as I never got a thrifty Isbar hatched for breeding.

So I went to another breeder for Cream Legbar hatching eggs as getting a true Ameraucana in my area proved tricky on a broody schedule. CL are a bit flighty, I've found from 2 different lines, due to the Leghorn blood. However they have a very intense sea blue which is much cleaner and more vivid than the Ameraucana eggs I'd seen. EE in my area were also washed out blue, likely due to one gene.

That left me with some cranky Marans and flighty Cream Legbar hens that I wanted to cool, and only 1 OE female chick who would need brown refresh for F2.

I researched and read Barnevelder roosters are some of the best tempered roosters. I couldn't find a breeder but stumbled onto some Barnevelder chicks in a high quality feed store. I love the double laced gold look, so I came home with 2 to add to my recently hatched OE Isbar-Marans lonely only chick. I also love the red terra cotta clay pot color known to the Barnevelder egg, plus the fact they would be better production. I was really hoping for a breeding pair. I think I bought the last 2 in the store? I'd never seen Barnevelders anywhere else in my area. They came from Ideal Poultry.

BOTH Barnevelder turned out to be roosters! Sigh. One was a bit flighty and aggressive, the other a sweetheart.

I returned the one to the store per their policy and kept my Barney boy. Best decision for a rooster and breed ever.

I test bred him over a white layer to see if he had the expected red brown egg color genes, and he proved true.

The next step was a given. Focus on making solid tempered and good laying OE with that breeding stock.

Barney's cool temper and solid genetics have been a staple for my program. He has given me 2 generations of OE daughter's....with a third hopefully next spring. The Barney coloring nicely does not interfer with the feather pallet of the hens, and placed over red based hens, in 2 generations I have gotten gorgeous laced Barnevelder hens that lay a medium to dark medium terra cotta.

I have really enjoyed my Barney line for OE.

His sons are generally as sweet as he is. I hatched maybe 10 sons over the years. Most have been nice tempered, but not all. This year I've got 2 sons, F2/F3, still here. One F1/F2 Blue Egger and one F3 double breed back brown, that I can't bring myself to cull as they are so sweet....but I don't need 3 roosters!

As Barney is aging, just turned 4, I will keep one for his line. You generally can't get rid of roosters in my area for love or money, so I really hope I don't have to cull the one I decide not to keep. My daughter has dubbed the blue egger Wesley from the Princess Bride as I have gone out 3 times to cull him, as I should replace Barney with a brown egger rooster, but he is so sweet he always sees another day.

Anyway, it was temperament, laying ability, and the rich red tone Barnevelder adds to the pallet.

HTH
LofMc