OMG this integrating is going to be a thing too, isn't it?!

[aliris]

Well, I have had chickens for a few years now, but things have only recently "happened". And so now, suddenly, I realize there is so, so, so much to know.... Sorry to be annoying, obviously many here understand that what you know is prodigious. But how much I don't know is just beginning to dawn on me.

I bought two supposedly young laying hens today ("varios") ... but I don't think I even paid attention to what age they were supposed to be; not sure that's even known. They're vaxxed, from a reputable hardware store where I bought 4 chicks 3 years ago who have been wonderful. Two died recently and the remainders are so sad and low - we all just seemed like we needed pets, and it seemed time.

However, ... the former days of no-drama after the flock was decimated suddenly look kinda rosey.

The elders are in the chicken palace that got built for them, kinda rattley now. And the two YA are in a commercial coop inherited from a bout with rescue chickens of an earlier era. The commercial coop is in a section of the run that can be separated from the part of the run where the palace is, so the birds have a double chicken wired/hardware cloth wall between them and can get no closer than maybe 2.5 feet at the closest. They can all see and hear each other.

At first the elders just ignored the newcomers and raced to get as far away as possible. And by far away I mean out of their run altogether; I let them out when I'm around.

Then eventually I put them back in their half of the run and oh my, that's when the complaining started. Nonstop kvetching. It's funny, practically. One of them sort of got out of the run, who knows how, and made a beeline to the garden where she's learned she's not really allowed. I told her off and she literally ran back to the run's gate and waited to be let back in; it was really funny. I figured she'd leave again by whatever way she'd managed to forge but she didn't. Then later after I got tired of hearing the constant complaining - they take it in turns like a perfect duet; first one then the other caws their complaint. At this point I let them out and the two of them both dashed to the garden in tandem. It's like a big FU. They know to stay out of there and they just - honestly, can a chicken possibly be passive aggressive???

So since I didn't observe any overt aggressive behavior, I thought at first this was all going to be remarkably simple. I realize though that they're getting warmed up. Is this going to be awful? I just thought they'd look at each other, be curious, learn to hear and smell and just, you know, get along. I had no idea they would "act out", and toward _me_???? Like, wow.

Any hints or suggestions? Pointers to articles or threads of stuff I should know better? I was thinking at least 2-3 days for the new ones isolated inside the smaller coop (it's big enough for the two, just not commodious), and then some time in the divided yard where they'd be separated just by chicken wire only. I thought a couple weeks apart this way. Is that a reasonable plan?

I'll post a couple barely-acceptable photos to try to show the setup, but these weren't taken with the aim of showing the setup, so what you see is sort of piecemeal. The first shows the palace standing in the passageway between the two sections of the run - the stick on its side closes the sections off and just out of the picture to the right is the smaller commercial house. The second picture is from behind the doorway to the whole enclosure you can just see on the left of the first picture, looking through that close-offable passageway between the two sections of the run, looking at the small commercial house. I was cleaning things out so the doors are open and the palace closed. Hope this helps. The two sections of the run are closed off with that angled stick which can be stretched closed. I'm sure I have better pictures if this is too confusing. tia for any suggestions, warnings, thoughts, instructions, pointers....

 

[SourRoses]

Chickens don't like change. At all, lol.
But they will get used to it.
I don't know about the idea they're being passive aggressive going to the garden. We've never successfully taught ours about "no" spots. The most we've managed is to make it harder for them to get where we don't want them, like the porch.

Integrating will take a while. What I've learned from the great people here is that it really helps to add "run litter" when the time comes to let them out together. That litter can be various objects that allow a picked-on bird to escape the sightline of an aggressor. Sheets of material like wood or plastic (I've used totes and muck buckets), bales of hay or straw, sideways lawn furniture, and the like.
Make sure you offer more than one feeder and waterer, in spots distant enough and not visible to each other so that one bully can't guard all the food.
The most trouble I've ever had integrating birds was with 4 mature hens, as the smaller numbers can concentrate aggression. I had to use all of the above helpful suggestions, and just when I thought about separating them, everyone settled down into a nice flock like they had never been so rude to each other.
Ever since then, when I move birds between pens (which I have to do often for breeding purposes) I actually add to the drama on purpose by putting the birds I know will be dominant (elder, usually) into the unfamiliar space, moving as many as possible at once, and having a good rooster helps too. He keeps the lead hen from feeling too much in charge.
But you can get them integrated without, it's just going to take some resolve.

 

[aliris]

My goodness, I didn't really understand what I was getting into. And I thought older birds would be easier; that seems unlikely. Well fortunately we are terrible housekeepers; a littered yard will not be hard to achieve. There's no rooster though - City won't allow them. If one of these turns out to be a he we're in trouble.

 

[JDonn127]

I just went through introducing three 17 week old pullets with three 3 yr old hen. Lets say it didn’t go as well as all the videos I watched on YouTube. I truly believe they were expertly edited . Because my integration went nowhere as smooth as those. The bullying and pecking was pretty intense especially from the lowest hen in the pecking order. I did exactly the stuff SourRoses said and I was there constantly to supervise. The one good piece of advice I got from the videos was to keep a spray bottle with a good long stream handy to break up any serious battling. Now everyone is getting alone pretty well… theres still a peck here and there and maybe the fact that the pullets started laying might have contributed to their acceptance.

 

[Shadrach]

Any hints or suggestions?

Everything about chickens becomes a lot easier to understand if you acknowledge one simple fact, chickens are tribal creatures, not flock creatures.
It's one of hardest facts to take on board, but once one does so much of their behaviour becomes clearer and the solutions to the various problems easier to get to.

 

[aliris]

not looking forward to this, lol! When my four who had been raised from chickdom together were in operation they did as well seem sometimes to act as one organism. Too. Not saying they're not also tribal, but they're also part of a whole.

 

[SourRoses]

One of our frequent posters suggests feeding / treating them along a common fence line to expose them to eating as a flock.

As for timing, let's ask @rosemarythyme

 

[rosemarythyme]

So you're adding 2 to 2? 1-2 weeks with see but no touch is reasonable, though I'm a little foggy over how close the two set ups are. I think they'd be better off right next to each other with the wire between the two sides, and not additional distance. Ideally you want the two sides to be mostly ignoring each other before you let them interact without a fence in between. I strictly add chicks to adults though, but some of the idea is still the same.

 

[aliris]

Thanks all! I'll go get a dedicated photo to show. there's just a chicken wire fence dividing a large yard in two, but then in one side of the divided yard is this commercial coop which is predator proof (sort of; once was), so that makes for a second divider. And that coop isn't right up against the yard-divider, though it's close.

Q: I think as the birds came from a commercial hardware/feed store with at least 50 chickens in a large pen, I should worry about quarantine for disease reasons as well as separation as part of the integration process, right? So... If they came home on Saturday, can I let them out of their small coop and into their side of the yard on, say, Tuesday? tia.

 

[aliris]

Sorry - yes, 2+2 - and at least one of the new ones is in fact laying because she did so this morning - surprised me! Made a right-cozy nest for herself. The older ones do not stop screaming the whole time they're in their yard and I cannot stand the racket so have let them go self-isolate out of sight, out of mind, lol. Coupla terrorists.

Hard to make out in this picture where the fence line goes, but it comes close to the far edge, at the other side of the wooden box on the ground on the left, between the coop and the tree and the ski poles are staking it down to the right.