One rooster, 4-5 hens.. will that work?

[Sabz]

From the start, I planned on having 4-5 layer + a rooster. I also planned to have some meat birds - supplied by mister rooster so I wouldn't need to buy one day chicks.

But, yesterday I was reading my book on self sufficiency, and it said that it should be one rooster for about 20 hens, otherwise the rooster will mount the hens too often and can injure them.

My coop is 4*8, with a 20*15 run (in case that changes anything for the rooster!).

So, according to your experiences, what is the minimum flock to have a rooster?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Just because you read it in a book doesn’t make it any more right than something you read on the internet. You are dealing with living animals, anything is possible. There are posts on this forum where hens have problems when there is one rooster and many more than 20 hens. Some breeders keep one rooster with one or two hens during the breeding season and don’t have problems. One of their secrets is that they use mature chickens, not adolescents.

It’s not unusual for a hen to lose a loose feather during mating, but the problem comes in when a hen loses so many feathers she become what is called barebacked. Sections of her skin is exposed and she can be cut by the rooster’s claws or maybe spurs during mating. That is serious and can be fatal.

Personality and behavior of the individual chickens, hens as well as rooster, is important. Both have to do their part for a successful mating. Some roosters are brutes. Some hens will never submit to a rooster or can be pretty vicious herself. I don’t tolerate either of these in my flock.

Maturity has a lot to do with it. When they are adolescents hormones are running wild, especially in the males. The mating ritual is not just about sex, it is also about dominance. The one on bottom is accepting the dominance of the one on top, either willingly or by force. The cockerel’s instincts are not only telling him to fertilize eggs, they are telling him to dominate. Pullets are normally later in maturing and don’t have a clue what is going on, so they resist. It can get really messy until they all mature enough to work out their place in chicken society. But if you can get through these teenage years, they normally become mature contributing members of society and you have a pretty peaceful flock. Many cockerels that would become great roosters literally lose their heads at this stage. As I said above, some deserve to.

Something else I’ve observed. I’ve also read a study in it on the internet. Some hens have brittle feathers. It’s genetic. Their feathers are so brittle that even if a rooster has his technique down perfectly and the hen does her part, the feathers just break off. The hens become barebacked through no fault of the rooster.

There is another magic number on hen/rooster ratio floating around this forum, 10 hens for every rooster. That is the ratio used by hatcheries that use the pen breeding method, which means they might have 20 roosters in a pen with 200 hens. Their goal is fertile eggs and they have found that in that pen breeding system, a ratio of 10 to 1 is what is required for fertility. While many people attach magical properties to this ratio, it really has nothing to do with roosters fighting and extremely little if anything to do with barebacked hens. It is purely about fertility in that particular situation. In a free range flock that your book was talking about, one normally active rooster can normally keep 20 hens fertile. It is a different situation.

The only reason you need a rooster is if you want fertile eggs. Anything else is just personal preference. Many people have flocks of hens they free range with no rooster present and they are quite happy with that situation. Others would not dream of free ranging a flock without a rooster. A rooster is not required for a hen to lay eggs. My advice is to keep as few roosters as you can and still meet your goals. With your room you will probably be OK with a rooster and 4 to 5 hens if you can get through the adolescent stage, but they are living animals. No one can give you guarantees one way or the other.

I raise chickens for meat. My flock will get up into the 40’s during the summer, often with as many cockerels as pullets. But my laying/breeding flock I overwinter is normally around one rooster and 7 to 8 hens. I have had hens with brittle feathers but they were permanently removed from my flock before they were allowed to breed, thus removing those genetics. I have a lot more room than you but I just don’t have problems with over-mating, though it can get pretty exciting when those cockerels are coming of age.

 

[Sabz]

Wow that was a great answer, thanks.

Yes, I know that what I read in books and the web is theoretical, this is why I seek advice from you guys, with experience. I do understand it also depends on each chicken's personality!

Good point about the age. I have bred dogs for a long time and for most of your post, I can relate with dog breeding.

That's true, I will need to manage my flock in order to have the best compatibility between individuals. I want the rooster for fertile eggs also, to provide my meat chickens without having to buy them from someone else (and possibly import diseases in my flock).

Do you think some breeds are more gentle then others, regarding roosters? As we said before, it will depend on the personality of each rooster, but in dogs we can tell that some breeds are almost always gentle, while others are more "defensive" and less gentle by nature. I wonder if it is the same with chickens.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Good, you understand breeding. Certain chicken breeds have a reputation of being gentler than others, but I’m really skeptical. I think strain is more important. With chickens unless you constantly reinforce a certain trait it can be lost. Say egg size. If you consistently only save your breeding birds from hens that lay large eggs and roosters that hatched from larger eggs, you will wind up with a flock that normally lays larger eggs. If egg size is not a criteria when picking your breeders, you won’t get larger than average eggs. The size will be all over the board.

Specific to your question, Rhode Island Red roosters have a reputation for being bad roosters, human aggressive as well as hard on their hens. Yet certain RIR breeders use rooster behavior as a selection criteria. No rooster that shows bad aggressive tendencies is allowed to breed. They have outstandingly well-behaved roosters. Behavior tendencies as well as other traits can be inherited.

Another example, for thousands of years small farmers have had totally free ranging chickens and they also have small children growing up, usually doing chores around the flock. If a rooster ever attacks a kid, that rooster become supper. I grew up on one of those farms with four siblings. We never had to worry about a rooster attacking us.

Most hatcheries don’t worry about a rooster’s behavior when selecting which ones go in the breeding pens. You are much more likely to get a bad rooster from a hatchery than from a flock where behavior is important. Finding a flock where behavior is important can be a challenge.

If you look at breeds that were developed as pets and not for production, you are probably going to have a bit better chance of getting a more docile rooster, but it is still going to be pot luck.

 

[Sabz]

This is going to be a fun experiment. My only encounters with mature roosters were when I worked for a commercial egg producer. The roosters WERE MAD!! I remember them jumping in our backs anytime we wouldn't face them. Their claws always hurt us a lot. I left the job mainly because of the two rooters picking on me, and also the UNBEARABLE hot temperature in the coop.

I guess that rooster came from a line of aggressive and very.. "manly" rooster, maybe more prone to mate the females often? Certainly not bred to be gentle, the producer didn't care about that at all.

I also hatched some eggs when I was a teen. We had a major power outage of almost a whole day, and only one egg survived. Turned out to be a rooster. We kept him for almost a year. He was really gentle, we could watch a whole movie with that guy sitting on our lap. My dad also remembers him and talks about him in good terms, he liked him also!

That made me wonder... if I keep a male chick and bring him in the house and get him to "like" me, when he grows to be mature I would imagine he would protect me and include me in his flock like he would for hens? But that isn't certain, since when he will mature and the hormones kick in, he may just want me out of there anyhow.. but if I get a rooster that isn't friendly at all, I will possibly try this

I was thinking of a Cornish rooster. Since the chicks will be kept for meat, I would want a "meaty" father to give the genes to the babies.. I will try to find a flock where behavior is important, and get a rooster from such a place.

Again, thanks for your feedback. I think chickens will be just like the dogs I've bred for so long, I think it will be fine, I just need to study them a little bit, as I did when I started out with dogs!

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

Specific to your question, Rhode Island Red roosters have a reputation for being bad roosters, human aggressive as well as hard on their hens. Yet certain RIR breeders use rooster behavior as a selection criteria. No rooster that shows bad aggressive tendencies is allowed to breed. They have outstandingly well-behaved roosters. Behavior tendencies as well as other traits can be inherited.

I had also heard that RIR roosters were aggressive, but I've had several (from hatcheries, so not real RIR but not Production Red either) that have been very nice flock roosters. One thing I've done to make sure I only have good boys is to buy 6-10 cockerel chicks, band them with different color bands, and watch them grow up. I cull aggressively for personality, and only 1-2 make the cut, so to speak.

I would specifically NOT bring your male chicks into the house and make pets of them. You've bred dogs so you understand that dogs aren't people and have their own language and cues to watch for; in this case, you need to think like a chicken. A hen grooms the alpha rooster; when humans groom (pet) a rooster that can be interpreted by the bird as being subservient to them. Some people let roosters perch on their shoulders, but the alpha bird gets the highest perch; once again, you've told him in "chicken language" that he's the boss. He will put on little displays to reinforce his dominance, like walking toward your back, holding himself very erect, raising his hackles at you, etc. Many people miss the subtle signs, but if you don't react to them then once again you are confirming in his mind that he's the boss of you. Then when he tells you to do something (which you'll miss, because you don't speak chicken) and you don't obey, he might decide to remind you that he's the boss and will punish you by attacking.

To me, a perfect rooster is not afraid of me, but is respectful of me. He will come running when I throw out treats and won't freak out if I handle the chickens but will walk away when I walk towards him. We give cockerels one chance around here--show any sign of aggression, which is NOT attacking--I mean a sign like stalking up to my back or not moving away from me or fluffing up hackles at me--and I will chase that bird around the pasture flapping and squawking at the top of my lungs and try to catch him and let him know in no uncertain terms that I am the BOSS. The second time he challenges me, he doesn't see the next sunrise.