Opal Blackshoulder chicks

[frenchblackcopper]

Arbor,,I'm glad I'm not the only person who has not seen every color-pattern of peafowl,and who would like to.Lil Zoo,if anyone has a good picture of a specific color-pattern that picture could be used.The work load would drop dramatically if 10-15 members all made a list of what birds they had,specific to color and pattern.If there is still 1-2 colors-patterns that none of those members has I'm sure someone within UPA could be located that had the few possible birds that were missing to complete the digest.It's so easy to sit back and "want" but it takes dedication to follow thru and get things accomplished.Knowing what a particuar color-patterned bird looks like is almost as helpful as a breeding database comprised of each color-pattern bred to each other color-pattern.These are always the most asked questions it seems in this website,is identifying peas and wanting to know something regarding genetics.UPA should have both of these in my opinion.A few of us here who do try to answer questions based on what we know or have been thru ourselves isn't always concise.I stay away from the questions regarding genetics,,,I know in my mind what needs to be said,,but typing it out causes confusion and gets misinterpreted(sp)

 

[Lil Zoo]

Maybe that is how it will get done is someone volunteering with a great set up going from place to place and taking quality pictures. I know I have offered to volunteer some time to help the UPA. Sounds like Arbor you have a good start with all your colors. I know that is how I picked the colors that I want is looking at pictures. The live bird is always even more beautiful. Squeaky wheels get greased first so if people want this done can work to help, I'd just keep bugging them. I can't do computer work for a long period of time each day, but I could volunteer my time to put them on the web site.

 

[WestKnollAmy]

I am glad to read this thread.
I am another newbie to peafowl and am searching for as much info as possible. Though I did "inherit" 4 adult pairs of birds, I did not know what one color was for the longest time and now that I know, I am ecstatic! But for a while I was calling it the wrong color because there was so little info out there.

As I have read through websites and here on BYC, I realize that colors of peafowl has only really started changing so much in the last 30 years. I am sure it takes time to organize everything but I really look forward to trying to keep up with what I may hatch and grow out. My web site is fairly easy, I have a huge amount of space and it is fairly cheap for someone as poor as me.
I am not a member of the UPA but maybe someone will gift me a membership for Christmas, if only for the articles I need to improve my knowledge.

Thank you all for talking about this so I could learn a bit more about this beautiful fowl.

 

[6littlechickies]

Group,


The UPA would love any help that individuals would like to offer. Pictures can be easily posted to the UPA Facebook page where color/pattern pictures are being collected for this project. You do not have to be a UPA member to use the FB page or the UPA web page (so check them out

) but if anyone has interest in joining and getting the other benefits such as breeder directory, magazine, convention etc. we will gladly welcome you. Cost is not too extreme at $30 and runs for one year.

If anyone wants to be active in the UPA or discuss it please give me a PM and let's build that color list

Jay Louden
UPA BOD

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Jay, I'm very interested in helping but not very knowledgable at this point. I also feel using a social media website that does not allow search engine optimization should NOT be used for such a project. People looking for peacock answers would not think of Facebook,,nor do I think a browser search of Peafowl Colors and Patterns would emerge on a search if put in Facebook,,a complete new website or off-shoot with a direct link off the UPA website would prove best. Some UPA members such as Doug and Sid already have some very good pics of some colors and perhaps contacting UPA members who already has great pictures would allow them to be used as long as proper credit is given with possibly a link to their website in a "Thanks" section,this way they would be getting much higher search engine optimization because of outside links to their website.Domain names can be bought cheap,,GoDaddy has some great hosting options as well as design templates.One "HOME" page explaining what the site is about,then individual links on the side starting with just the main colors,from there dividing up patterns-ect otherwise there would be 275 plus links on the home page.
Another thing is very little is ever written about "how to breed to get?" in peafowl.If I'm wanting to get a white eye gene in one color of peacock so every eye in his train is white,,what options do I have to use and breed such a bird? How do I exactly breed birds to get "pied" in them? There are many peacocks colors that I have never seen both sexes of,such as the Sonja's Violetta male with full train and it being opened,sure there is pics of the hen,but I've never seen what an adult male looks like,,has anyone?? And Mocha,,looks like a dun colored India Blue to me,,never seen a pic of the entire bird.Some of these "new colors" to me looks to be slight variations of existing colors.Much has been said here about Cameo-Peach,,and some breeders has told me that they indeed get Peach from Cameo breedings,so this seems to be a slight color variation-or shade variation within a "wavelength" of color.as we all know there are many,many shades of the color blue so if all the sudden someone gets a slightly lighter or slightly darker shade of blue in their India Blue pen,it constitutes a new color? I don't think so,,because the color "Blue" is not percieved by everyone as being the exact same shade-hue of color.The new Taupe color to me from the few pics I have seen looks like a shade of charcoal,silver or opal not a completely new color.Just as with perfume,no patents can be given on a new perfume because not everyone has the same realization-perception of what a "same" smell perfume or cologne is.

 

[WestKnollAmy]

These are interesting questions but from what I have read there is so much new to peafowl that no one really seems to know. Or if they do they aren't sharing. How sad, too.

I hope to learn a lot of answers to your great questions but I bet it will be years and my experience that provide them all. I think a lot of what happens is no one knows what each bird will produce because they don;t know how they are genetically made up to start with. So many people breed different colors in and sell what they don;t need and what it looks to be is not what the genes truly hold so when they breed to what they think is the same color, they get something unexpected.

I could be on the wrong track here but I agree with you that more sharing of what people have bred, as far as photos go, and what they get is a wonderful idea.
Goodness knows, I would love to have a white eyed Opal someday!

 

[Mmmaddie13]

I've seen Taupe in person, it's definitely a different color. It's almost a dusty light grey. Very pretty. Looks nothing like Charcoal in my opinion, maybe a little like Opal but there's a definite difference. Brad Legg's photogallery is about as close as we can get to a collection of pictures of each variety of peafowl. He also has links to some genetic things.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Mmmaddie,,tell me what you think of,when you think of or relate to the color blue?? Blue as in Robin egg blue? As in Blue Skies? Pacific Ocean Blue? Or Caribbean beach water blue? Taupe maynot be close to Charcoal but is sure looks like the same color as my Opal 1 yr old hens or the silver pied 2 yr old hen I have.If not exactly like eiher one of them it's definately close within a few shades at least
Black seems to be the same shade-color in anyones eyes,,although whte has several "tones" to it we all associate a similiar response but Blue,Red,Orange to name a few is not seen the same in everyones eyes.I'd like to see UPA come up with a very.very clear distinction when it comes to adding a new color-pattern.And if it's so difficult to visually see these clear distinctions seperating colors they shopuld not be considered as a "NEW" color because they are just variants of shades of an already existing color,,such as Peach-Cameo.

 

[Arbor]

Jay, I'm very interested in helping but not very knowledgable at this point. I also feel using a social media website that does not allow search engine optimization should NOT be used for such a project. People looking for peacock answers would not think of Facebook,,nor do I think a browser search of Peafowl Colors and Patterns would emerge on a search if put in Facebook,,a complete new website or off-shoot with a direct link off the UPA website would prove best. Some UPA members such as Doug and Sid already have some very good pics of some colors and perhaps contacting UPA members who already has great pictures would allow them to be used as long as proper credit is given with possibly a link to their website in a "Thanks" section,this way they would be getting much higher search engine optimization because of outside links to their website.Domain names can be bought cheap,,GoDaddy has some great hosting options as well as design templates.One "HOME" page explaining what the site is about,then individual links on the side starting with just the main colors,from there dividing up patterns-ect otherwise there would be 275 plus links on the home page.
Another thing is very little is ever written about "how to breed to get?" in peafowl.If I'm wanting to get a white eye gene in one color of peacock so every eye in his train is white,,what options do I have to use and breed such a bird? How do I exactly breed birds to get "pied" in them? There are many peacocks colors that I have never seen both sexes of,such as the Sonja's Violetta male with full train and it being opened,sure there is pics of the hen,but I've never seen what an adult male looks like,,has anyone?? And Mocha,,looks like a dun colored India Blue to me,,never seen a pic of the entire bird.Some of these "new colors" to me looks to be slight variations of existing colors.Much has been said here about Cameo-Peach,,and some breeders has told me that they indeed get Peach from Cameo breedings,so this seems to be a slight color variation-or shade variation within a "wavelength" of color.as we all know there are many,many shades of the color blue so if all the sudden someone gets a slightly lighter or slightly darker shade of blue in their India Blue pen,it constitutes a new color? I don't think so,,because the color "Blue" is not percieved by everyone as being the exact same shade-hue of color.The new Taupe color to me from the few pics I have seen looks like a shade of charcoal,silver or opal not a completely new color.Just as with perfume,no patents can be given on a new perfume because not everyone has the same realization-perception of what a "same" smell perfume or cologne is.

Okay, a lot of questions in here. I too believe a dedicated website or offshoot for a proper photo directory is what is needed. I am working on the ones I have, but am planning to make a coffee table book for myself really. I had no interest from others when I posted a request a while ago for photos for it.

The "how to breed to get?" question is next. I have a great idea on a genetics database. Initially it would be "what does 'x' crossed with 'y' make?" This would include cross colour breeding (some would be theoretical until they have been bred), pattern breeding and the breeding of all possible split birds as well. Once this database is complete, you could create a reverse search to answer "how to breed to get?" My brother is the programmer in the family, but without some financial compensation for his work, its going to take a long time.

Next, Brad Legg has some violete photos on his website of an adult male (though not in display). I have yet to see photos of an adult mocha male aside from the few train photos on Legg's site as well. I'll have to hook up with you FBC sometime so we can visit his ranch.

The next question/comment on new colours. Peach is a combination of purple and cameo (ask those who first bred it). Until someone pipes up and proves that Taupe is completely new genetic variant and not a combination of two commonly available colours (I won't say until I do the breeding myself) I will read between the lines about what is posted on Legg's website. I personally will be working with a completely new colour combination next year in the hopes of hatching a male. I have a 2 yr old hen and two 2012 hens of this colour at my disposal plus the parents. I believe the bird is partially sex-linked, just as I believe that Taupe is partially sex-linked (Yes, breeding Taupe to Taupe produces Taupe and Taupe male to IB hen does not produce Taupe hens). This only works with colour combos using a sex-linked colour. Breeding a male of your new colour to a hen of the non-sex-linked colour in the combination would produce hens of the new colour. (I'm probably complicating things, but maybe someone reading this will understand). The unfortunate thing is that the colour I will be working with is also lighter coloured with a possibility of the male not having a defined darkened eye in the train, just as in Taupe. I believe that this is going to happen with a lot of these colour combos that are going to come out in the next 10 years. This year's hatch for me was a good one, I have several pairs of colour combo carrying birds, and hopefully in two or three years the odds are in my favour. For now though, the colour I am working with next year will produce a male, giving us a potential release date for photos in 2016.

The only concern I have with the new colour (whether combo or genuine genetic variant) is that why the UPA has to "approve" it? If I breed a new colour using a colour combo technique and describe how to breed it and it is rejected from "approval", then we're going to have to have a complete overhaul of what a "colour" is (ie. peach). Off topic a bit, this leads me to the colour Jade. If it was discovered in a spalding bird, how can it be a colour of Indian Blue?

I dont disagree with having an organization like the UPA, its a wonderful association and informational database, but its been around a while now, and that database needs to grow to accommodate the current needs. Whether this includes a photo directory and genetic search engine sponsored financially by the UPA to have it completed, I'm not sure, I don't know their financial situation and I suck at bookeeping.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

What I think sometimes goes on with these new "colors" is really a diffrent shade of an existing color,and the person who happens to hatch one out soon capitalizes on it as a "new" color thus thinking they have cornered the market on some elite Phd required degree to breed-geneticly produce this color using high tech lab equipment,ect. I know the 2 colors used to produce "Peach" but I have also been told by a premier peach breeder that some cameo birds bred to like cameos produces peach colored birds.This to me is enough proof that peach is nothing special colorwise,so why the big price for a dark shade cameo chick?
Another misrepresentation of a diffrent colored pea really gets my feathers fluffed. Credit was NOT given name wise,nor thru compensation for this colored pea that we all like. Overall I see $$$ signs when a slightly new shade of an existing color surfaces.