- Thread starter
- #21
Open Air/Open Front Coop Questions
- Thread starter Ferrret
- Start date
Quote:
Okay, okay. Hmmm. Let's see.
I think that this could work with modification.
You will want a way to close up the front screens for winter, so I'd make them as large as you are going to want for summer. Even tho you are planning to put the roosts in the back, you just can't have that much coop opened up when it's so cold. I'm talking more than plexiglass panes. I'm not a ventilation expert -- PAT!!!! -- but I think that closing up those front screens won't affect the ventilation qualities of the top vents. They should continue to work just fine.
And I also foresee those front screens letting in a great deal of rain, even with a pretty good overhang.... I can't tell from the photo if the front is a stable wall or if it's doors (I can see a support in the middle). If that front wall could be made into doors, then you could have summer doors and winter doors. Otherwise, you will want to determine a way to securely close up those walls for winter.
This probably doesn't need to be said, but you will HAVE to put hardware wire on those open screens.
The windows at the top are great - again, I wouldn't position the coop in the direction you get your weather (ie: all my weather comes from the West, but so does the majority of the sunlight) to reduce the amount of rain that comes blowing in. And in the winter, you probably won't want that much ventilation open. But if that's going to be your ONLY ventilation, then you'll need to find a way to close it up only partially, because no matter how cold it gets, you still need to have open ventilation for moisture/humidity removal. Also, consider just HOW you plan to open/close it. If the coop is 2 ft. off the ground, it's not improbable that you could have a step to get up inside. Maybe replace that side window with a large door for human access.
And this is just my opinion, but giving your chickens 4 sq/ft of space each (assuming 6 chickens) in a cold weather location like ours where they might likely be indoors for the majority of the winter season, could be asking for trouble. Think "cabin fever." They will be better behaved with extra space. I know you have your heart set on a 4x6 coop. Maybe consider only 4 chickens instead of 6? I'm just say'n. It's JMHO.
I hope this helps.
What are your plans for the run?
Okay, okay. Hmmm. Let's see.
I think that this could work with modification.
You will want a way to close up the front screens for winter, so I'd make them as large as you are going to want for summer. Even tho you are planning to put the roosts in the back, you just can't have that much coop opened up when it's so cold. I'm talking more than plexiglass panes. I'm not a ventilation expert -- PAT!!!! -- but I think that closing up those front screens won't affect the ventilation qualities of the top vents. They should continue to work just fine.
And I also foresee those front screens letting in a great deal of rain, even with a pretty good overhang.... I can't tell from the photo if the front is a stable wall or if it's doors (I can see a support in the middle). If that front wall could be made into doors, then you could have summer doors and winter doors. Otherwise, you will want to determine a way to securely close up those walls for winter.
This probably doesn't need to be said, but you will HAVE to put hardware wire on those open screens.
The windows at the top are great - again, I wouldn't position the coop in the direction you get your weather (ie: all my weather comes from the West, but so does the majority of the sunlight) to reduce the amount of rain that comes blowing in. And in the winter, you probably won't want that much ventilation open. But if that's going to be your ONLY ventilation, then you'll need to find a way to close it up only partially, because no matter how cold it gets, you still need to have open ventilation for moisture/humidity removal. Also, consider just HOW you plan to open/close it. If the coop is 2 ft. off the ground, it's not improbable that you could have a step to get up inside. Maybe replace that side window with a large door for human access.
And this is just my opinion, but giving your chickens 4 sq/ft of space each (assuming 6 chickens) in a cold weather location like ours where they might likely be indoors for the majority of the winter season, could be asking for trouble. Think "cabin fever." They will be better behaved with extra space. I know you have your heart set on a 4x6 coop. Maybe consider only 4 chickens instead of 6? I'm just say'n. It's JMHO.
I hope this helps.
What are your plans for the run?
- Thread starter
- #23
Well for chicken numbers we may end up with just 4 but we are planning on having room for 6. If we do end up with 6 I guess I could try to find a way to keep the run as snow free as possible. Tarps and half walls... I dunno...
The run is still planned to be attached to the coop and underneath it (an advantage to having it raised up 2'). So far I have it set up for 10 sq. ft. a bird extending under the coop and out to the front. We want to have a movable run but may opt for a fully mobile coop instead (BF's bought wheels for such a contraption already).
The hens will only be out during the day and the only predator around here that will attack during the day is a hawk. The run will have a cover so those pesky chicken abductors can't get to them. At night the hens will get shut up in the coop with some good latches raccoons can't finagle open.
BF doesn't want the run as tall as the coop (round about 8' total) so it's probably going to be in the 3' to 4' tall range, which should be plenty tall enough for chickens to run around in, unless of course we find a Chicken-Boo...
The weather where I am currently is pretty different from where I'll be when I move in with BF mid-May. As far as I have seen, it generally comes in from the west but there's eastern storms that move in from time to time. Weather is a bit difficult to predict very accurately here. I guess that will be another benefit of a movable coop. Would having a window that opens from the bottom work out better to keep ventilation without letting in rain/snow?
From what I had read about the overhang on the Woods coop, it had prevented some weather from getting in and if nothing else kept it from getting too far back into the coop.
I am thinking about putting up what they called a litter board about 2' in from the front of the coop and maybe putting some fast drying sand or diatomaceous earth in that section, and stirring it well or changing it out when it gets wet.
The screened front should only be about 1.5' tall and 3' 8" wide, set near the roof of the coop. That shouldn't be nearly as much wide open air as a full open front but still give good ventilation in the summer. Should I maybe have a board to bolt into place in the winter cutting the height down to 1' or 9"?
BF is dead set on having the back of the coop open up so we can get to the roosts, droppings board and clean it out. I also want a door on the side so I can get in and out for things like stirring litter and adjusting the window. The side door will probably be about 3' tall and 2' or so wide. We will probably add a door to the run that we can use from time to time.
I'm also still looking for winter hardy chicken suggestions as well. On that note has anyone heard of a Cherry Egger chicken? I have occasionally been clicking banner ads to see what I can find and the Pure Poultry site offers these birds, so now I'm curious.
http://www.purelypoultry.com/cherry-egger-chickens-p-372.html
The run is still planned to be attached to the coop and underneath it (an advantage to having it raised up 2'). So far I have it set up for 10 sq. ft. a bird extending under the coop and out to the front. We want to have a movable run but may opt for a fully mobile coop instead (BF's bought wheels for such a contraption already).
The hens will only be out during the day and the only predator around here that will attack during the day is a hawk. The run will have a cover so those pesky chicken abductors can't get to them. At night the hens will get shut up in the coop with some good latches raccoons can't finagle open.
BF doesn't want the run as tall as the coop (round about 8' total) so it's probably going to be in the 3' to 4' tall range, which should be plenty tall enough for chickens to run around in, unless of course we find a Chicken-Boo...
The weather where I am currently is pretty different from where I'll be when I move in with BF mid-May. As far as I have seen, it generally comes in from the west but there's eastern storms that move in from time to time. Weather is a bit difficult to predict very accurately here. I guess that will be another benefit of a movable coop. Would having a window that opens from the bottom work out better to keep ventilation without letting in rain/snow?
From what I had read about the overhang on the Woods coop, it had prevented some weather from getting in and if nothing else kept it from getting too far back into the coop.
I am thinking about putting up what they called a litter board about 2' in from the front of the coop and maybe putting some fast drying sand or diatomaceous earth in that section, and stirring it well or changing it out when it gets wet.
The screened front should only be about 1.5' tall and 3' 8" wide, set near the roof of the coop. That shouldn't be nearly as much wide open air as a full open front but still give good ventilation in the summer. Should I maybe have a board to bolt into place in the winter cutting the height down to 1' or 9"?
BF is dead set on having the back of the coop open up so we can get to the roosts, droppings board and clean it out. I also want a door on the side so I can get in and out for things like stirring litter and adjusting the window. The side door will probably be about 3' tall and 2' or so wide. We will probably add a door to the run that we can use from time to time.
I'm also still looking for winter hardy chicken suggestions as well. On that note has anyone heard of a Cherry Egger chicken? I have occasionally been clicking banner ads to see what I can find and the Pure Poultry site offers these birds, so now I'm curious.
http://www.purelypoultry.com/cherry-egger-chickens-p-372.html
Haha must have skipped over the part where you were from Michigan! sorry
Good luck maybe if you got all bantams instead you could have six like you want because the need less space but I'm not sure about their cold hardiness as long as you insulate it you and cover the front vents in the winter you should do great. Also that thing is gonna be heavy! I wouldn't plan on making it movable JMO though
I too am a bit worried about allowing only 4 sq ft per chicken in a harsh-winter area. I sure wouldn't do it myself.
Can I gently suggest maybe ditching the Woods design altogether, and rethinking this from scratch? The features you are talking about are just NOT going to work as desired on a teeny little house like you're proposing. A couple of feet of roof overhang scaled down to 6" will do very little to keep weather out of vents; a 1' high clerestory window will become a condensation farm and source of cold air in the winter, while not being the most efficient way to vent out heat in the summer and letting in WAY WAY too much rain during storms.
Small just does NOT work like big, in some cases, this being a poster child for it.
Since you will be building a conventional coop, can I suggest you use a conventional design for it, perhaps choosing one that has a demonstrated ability to be ventilated well and draftlessly in a cold climate? You will really get much better results that way. No point in building something fancy and then having frostbitten and/or miserable chickens.
As far as heating it, you should not have to heat it much if at all if it's properly designed (in such a small coop, you *may* have to heat it *some* if you are in a colder part of MI), and IMO it would be silly and wasteful of everybody's electricity to fail to design things for minimal heating requirements.
You are going to have a heck of a time building something that big, sturdy, and insulated that will be light enough to move, even with wheels -- at best, you will only be able to move it during the dry parts of the year or if you have bare frozen ground (but the wheels/frame are likely to be frozen into the ground at that point). Something to think about anyhow.
Good luck, have fun,
Pat
Can I gently suggest maybe ditching the Woods design altogether, and rethinking this from scratch? The features you are talking about are just NOT going to work as desired on a teeny little house like you're proposing. A couple of feet of roof overhang scaled down to 6" will do very little to keep weather out of vents; a 1' high clerestory window will become a condensation farm and source of cold air in the winter, while not being the most efficient way to vent out heat in the summer and letting in WAY WAY too much rain during storms.
Small just does NOT work like big, in some cases, this being a poster child for it.
Since you will be building a conventional coop, can I suggest you use a conventional design for it, perhaps choosing one that has a demonstrated ability to be ventilated well and draftlessly in a cold climate? You will really get much better results that way. No point in building something fancy and then having frostbitten and/or miserable chickens.
As far as heating it, you should not have to heat it much if at all if it's properly designed (in such a small coop, you *may* have to heat it *some* if you are in a colder part of MI), and IMO it would be silly and wasteful of everybody's electricity to fail to design things for minimal heating requirements.
You are going to have a heck of a time building something that big, sturdy, and insulated that will be light enough to move, even with wheels -- at best, you will only be able to move it during the dry parts of the year or if you have bare frozen ground (but the wheels/frame are likely to be frozen into the ground at that point). Something to think about anyhow.
Good luck, have fun,
Pat
Just for the record:
The last coop that we built was a playhouse style - 4x8 footprint with the house consisting of 4x4 (raised 2 ft. off the ground so the chickens could run underneath) and the run the other 4x4. Insulated walls and ceiling. Roofed with asphalt shingles. It took 4 corn-fed midwestern guys to move it onto the trailer for delivery.
The last coop that we built was a playhouse style - 4x8 footprint with the house consisting of 4x4 (raised 2 ft. off the ground so the chickens could run underneath) and the run the other 4x4. Insulated walls and ceiling. Roofed with asphalt shingles. It took 4 corn-fed midwestern guys to move it onto the trailer for delivery.
Pat,
check your PM's please.
Thanks,
Ron
check your PM's please.
Thanks,
Ron
- Thread starter
- #28
Would something like this work or not work for both summer and cold winters? It's a pretty rough sketch but it has the basics of what I have been asking about.
Black is the main outline, Grey is the inside walls, roosts, droppings board, litter board and nest boxes, Brown is litter, Light Brown is sand, Blue is a screened vent, and Red are the basic measurements.
I'm just fine with having 4 chickens and not 6. These birds aren't being raised for meat, selling eggs or breeding. They will be pets with a side benefit of eggs.
I'm fine with having one Silkie and 3 other cold hardy chickens.
Because there will be so few birds, a heater may be needed as it does get very cold for 3-4 months out of the year. The heater would only be used for the coldest days/nights to keep the birds warm, not for giving them a summer-like climate.
We don't plan on moving the coop around during the winter and most of the summer is dry and the ground stays fairly tough, unless we step on a mole tunnel. We only want to move the coop every now and again, not every day. If the hens will be moved on a daily basis we will have a movable run for them.
Black is the main outline, Grey is the inside walls, roosts, droppings board, litter board and nest boxes, Brown is litter, Light Brown is sand, Blue is a screened vent, and Red are the basic measurements.
I'm just fine with having 4 chickens and not 6. These birds aren't being raised for meat, selling eggs or breeding. They will be pets with a side benefit of eggs.
I'm fine with having one Silkie and 3 other cold hardy chickens.
Because there will be so few birds, a heater may be needed as it does get very cold for 3-4 months out of the year. The heater would only be used for the coldest days/nights to keep the birds warm, not for giving them a summer-like climate.
We don't plan on moving the coop around during the winter and most of the summer is dry and the ground stays fairly tough, unless we step on a mole tunnel. We only want to move the coop every now and again, not every day. If the hens will be moved on a daily basis we will have a movable run for them.
Ferret, this looks pretty good. Here are some thoughts to ponder:
Interested in why you designed with a litter board in mind. Is it to keep the sand/shavings inside? Removing the litter board and raising the pop door 6-9 inches off the floor would accomplish the same thing but also give them more uninterrupted floor space. Just a thought.
Also, from my experience, I'm not convinced that you need 2 roosts. I know that everyone says that you need 12 inches of roost space per chicken, but my experience has been that all the girls huddle together really quite tightly at night, on one end of the roost or the other, especially when it's cold, and much of my 6 ft. roost is wasted. Getting rid of one roost will give you some more interior space. And this is nitpicky, but you do know that you should use a 2x4 with the wide side up, yes? They'll want to sit flat upon it and in the winter they'll cover their toes with their bellies to keep warm.
Speaking of keeping warm, I have a ceramic heat emitter bulb for my coop and I just love it. It doesn't put out copious amounts of heat - but instead radiates heat downward on the chickens. It does not emit any light, so it doesn't disrupt their natural sleep/wake patterns. I have mine placed over one side of the roost. One design feature to consider would be to hardwire an exterior metal light socket over the roost, with a switch by the door, so you can easily turn the heat on as needed. In the summer I put in a regular bulb, really mostly just to keep the dust out of the socket. So much tidy-er than an extension cord. Besides, you're going to need an electrical socket for your heated water dish, so you may as well hardwire the coop.
I like that your vent is up very high and protected by the soffet. That should keep the rain out.
The only other thing that I can see, and it's a definite maybe, is potentially putting in a window. The added ventilation/fresh air in the summer will be an benefit, as will the sunshine in the winter when they're cooped up. Looks like you have a celestial window up top, but I'm talking about another one, maybe beside the nest box?
Really, it looks like you've really considered the opinions of the post - well done! Keep us posted!
Interested in why you designed with a litter board in mind. Is it to keep the sand/shavings inside? Removing the litter board and raising the pop door 6-9 inches off the floor would accomplish the same thing but also give them more uninterrupted floor space. Just a thought.
Also, from my experience, I'm not convinced that you need 2 roosts. I know that everyone says that you need 12 inches of roost space per chicken, but my experience has been that all the girls huddle together really quite tightly at night, on one end of the roost or the other, especially when it's cold, and much of my 6 ft. roost is wasted. Getting rid of one roost will give you some more interior space. And this is nitpicky, but you do know that you should use a 2x4 with the wide side up, yes? They'll want to sit flat upon it and in the winter they'll cover their toes with their bellies to keep warm.
Speaking of keeping warm, I have a ceramic heat emitter bulb for my coop and I just love it. It doesn't put out copious amounts of heat - but instead radiates heat downward on the chickens. It does not emit any light, so it doesn't disrupt their natural sleep/wake patterns. I have mine placed over one side of the roost. One design feature to consider would be to hardwire an exterior metal light socket over the roost, with a switch by the door, so you can easily turn the heat on as needed. In the summer I put in a regular bulb, really mostly just to keep the dust out of the socket. So much tidy-er than an extension cord. Besides, you're going to need an electrical socket for your heated water dish, so you may as well hardwire the coop.
I like that your vent is up very high and protected by the soffet. That should keep the rain out.
The only other thing that I can see, and it's a definite maybe, is potentially putting in a window. The added ventilation/fresh air in the summer will be an benefit, as will the sunshine in the winter when they're cooped up. Looks like you have a celestial window up top, but I'm talking about another one, maybe beside the nest box?
Really, it looks like you've really considered the opinions of the post - well done! Keep us posted!
- Thread starter
- #30
I drew it all pretty quick so I forgot to place the lil door up higher. The litter board would really be to separate the sand/dust from the litter itself. Their door would be up higher so they can just walk right across the litter and sand and down a ramp into the run.
That is a lot of sand though... Maybe having a sand-litter mix there so they could take dust baths but I wouldn't need a huge amount of sand to put there?
The litter we have in mind right now would be pine shavings, but I could swing by my Grandfathers farm and offer to clean up the hay barn floor and mix pine shavings with hay chaff, if that would be alright for the birds... What about straw or rye chaff?
Could the various chaff's (mixed, w/ pine shavings or not) stay usable if kept in a dry place, as in not rot? Because if that can be done I can spend a day or two raking and shoveling and collecting a lot of hay, straw and rye chaff from my Grandfathers farm, and I'm sure he wouldn't mind me cleaning up a bit.
Heck I could probably even clean out the corn crib and get some cobs to grind up, although mice do live in there so maybe not the corn crib.
Anyways...
I have thought about adding a window with a screen behind it on the human door so that if extra vents were needed in the summer, I could either swing the window open or pop it right off. I want to put another window somewhere for better natural light and heat. The other place I had thought about adding a window is atop the roof toward the back of the coop. It could be made to prop open for venting and would allow light right on top of the roosts. I do plan on keeping the roof of the coop fairly snow free so as to not block the celestial window and to prevent leaks.
One 4' roost will probably be more than enough. I was thinking more about in the summer, giving them an option to be spaced apart and not share so much body heat. I do know about using 2x4's and we do plan on rounding off the edges and using those either year round or at least when it starts to get cold.
The nest box is drawn in a little small, and it will probably be just one larger box for all 4 instead of 2 boxes.
As for heat, I do like the sounds of a ceramic bulb over a heat lamp or regular light. The less fire risk the better, as BF and I are quite concerned about having comfortable chickies and not cooked ones. The small radiation heater he has is electric and on a low setting would give off just enough heat to keep the chickies from being frozen. I have no idea on its size or how he would want to arrange it in/around the coop but I kinda figure having it where the hens can peck at it is a bad idea.
If we were to install it, I would want it outside the coop in it's own box and have slats or holes cut into the wall its built near so they can get some warmth but not accidentally burn themselves. Problem is I'm not sure if that is all that good of an idea. He says on the lowest setting it shouldn't cause any combustion, but it still makes me nervous.
His garage (which the coop will be stored next to in winter) has some external outlets with covers so we can plug things in without the weather damaging the connection. So either a ceramic bulb or the radiant heater would be ok to plug in and turn on. A heated waterer is a definite, and BF has commented on some sort of stun wire on the outside of the run. As for hardwiring, I'm no electrician, but BF does work with a few and he knows a lot more than I do about such things so that should be fairly doable.
Maybe I oughta rig a car battery and a lil motor to it and have a motorized coop!
Then the hens can tear up the town cruisin' around like a bunch of punk kids! (after they learn to drive of course)
That is a lot of sand though... Maybe having a sand-litter mix there so they could take dust baths but I wouldn't need a huge amount of sand to put there?
The litter we have in mind right now would be pine shavings, but I could swing by my Grandfathers farm and offer to clean up the hay barn floor and mix pine shavings with hay chaff, if that would be alright for the birds... What about straw or rye chaff?
Could the various chaff's (mixed, w/ pine shavings or not) stay usable if kept in a dry place, as in not rot? Because if that can be done I can spend a day or two raking and shoveling and collecting a lot of hay, straw and rye chaff from my Grandfathers farm, and I'm sure he wouldn't mind me cleaning up a bit.
Heck I could probably even clean out the corn crib and get some cobs to grind up, although mice do live in there so maybe not the corn crib.
Anyways...
I have thought about adding a window with a screen behind it on the human door so that if extra vents were needed in the summer, I could either swing the window open or pop it right off. I want to put another window somewhere for better natural light and heat. The other place I had thought about adding a window is atop the roof toward the back of the coop. It could be made to prop open for venting and would allow light right on top of the roosts. I do plan on keeping the roof of the coop fairly snow free so as to not block the celestial window and to prevent leaks.
One 4' roost will probably be more than enough. I was thinking more about in the summer, giving them an option to be spaced apart and not share so much body heat. I do know about using 2x4's and we do plan on rounding off the edges and using those either year round or at least when it starts to get cold.
The nest box is drawn in a little small, and it will probably be just one larger box for all 4 instead of 2 boxes.
As for heat, I do like the sounds of a ceramic bulb over a heat lamp or regular light. The less fire risk the better, as BF and I are quite concerned about having comfortable chickies and not cooked ones. The small radiation heater he has is electric and on a low setting would give off just enough heat to keep the chickies from being frozen. I have no idea on its size or how he would want to arrange it in/around the coop but I kinda figure having it where the hens can peck at it is a bad idea.
If we were to install it, I would want it outside the coop in it's own box and have slats or holes cut into the wall its built near so they can get some warmth but not accidentally burn themselves. Problem is I'm not sure if that is all that good of an idea. He says on the lowest setting it shouldn't cause any combustion, but it still makes me nervous.
His garage (which the coop will be stored next to in winter) has some external outlets with covers so we can plug things in without the weather damaging the connection. So either a ceramic bulb or the radiant heater would be ok to plug in and turn on. A heated waterer is a definite, and BF has commented on some sort of stun wire on the outside of the run. As for hardwiring, I'm no electrician, but BF does work with a few and he knows a lot more than I do about such things so that should be fairly doable.
Maybe I oughta rig a car battery and a lil motor to it and have a motorized coop!
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