Open Air/Open Front Coop Questions

[patandchickens]

It's getting closer to workable, but you've still got some problems to address, and some unnecessary complications that will do zero good for anything.

First, the clerestory window has GOT to go, I'm sorry, but it is going to make your coop cold and damp in the winter, honest, and will truly not do much good for ventilation in the summer (although it *will* let storms get your bedding very wet). Having it in a big coop is DIFFERENT THAN having it in a little coop. Or if you are just so attached to the aesthetics that you can't possibly part with it, plan to cover it up entirely (on the inside) with thick styrofoam insulation during the part of the year that gets temperatures below about 35-40, and build the windows so that they hinge outwards from the top (be careful to have a stout mechanism to prevent wind from breaking them off) so you don't get rain soaking the coop when they are used in summertime. Honestly it would be WAY simpler to just omit them.

Second, you need more ventilation. What you've got is adequate for winter but you will need more for summertime, even if you did have the clerestorey windows. I would suggest one or two large windows, not just a little opening in the people door but something that will open to a LARGE expanse of hardwarecloth for airflow. Don't put one in the roof though, or your roof will be leaky and rain will come in during summer storms.

One roost is quite adequate, a 4' roost IS long enough for four chickens to space themselves out and they really don't do that much even in hot weather anyhow.

I know you are copying the "sand area divided from bedding area" thing from the large house plans but it will not work that way in your small house. The bedding will just go EVERYwhere, as will the sand (chickens dig and kick stuff around), and you will end up with it all messed together and no evidence left of the work you put into it. Just make it regular bedding everywhere. They can dust outside. Also sand would be a significant extra weight burden on your floor.

If you lower it from 2' to 18" above the ground, it will have no consequences for the chickens and make the structure a bit more stable in the wind, especially if this is to be just set *on* the ground rather than sunk posts (I forget which you are planning)

And make sure to insulate heavily. This will decrease the amount you need to heat (if at all), and thus make things SAFER.

Good luck, have fun, you're getting there

Pat

 

[Intheswamp]

Best wishes with your coop.

Ed

 

[Intheswamp]

Oh, and I agree again with Pat....drop the clerestory window and *don't* cut any holes in the roof!
Ed

ETA: spelling

 

[Ferrret]

Well I read Pat's post earlier today when I had some down time at school and started drawing up a new plan for the coop with no roof windows and shorter legs. I'll try to get the picture drawn into the computer as soon as possible so you can check it over and correct what I may have put in wrong.

I did add 2 windows on opposite sides of the coop, about 2' square, that I am still trying to figure out how to make them removable for summer and have a snug fit in winter. Would adding a frame directly to the window be alright as long as I can bolt it into the sill when the temp starts dropping?

I'll also ditch the sand area and keep it all litter. Would a combination of hay, straw and rye chaff work well as litter and if so would the chaff store well if kept in a dry area? The plan is to use pine shavings or pellets for litter, but I do have access to hay, straw and rye chaff free of charge, I just have to collect it myself.

The roof will be tar papered and shingled, probably the roof of the nest box as well.
The walls and roof shall be insulated with a second wall, and because the floor is raised I am curious about insulating that as well.

The waterer may be kept outside in the summer but I don't think hens will come out for a drink in the winter, so an area will be set for the waterer to be in the coop. We'll make sure it isn't going to leak or easily spill.
I've read a bit about the diatomaceous earth and how it helps dry things out. Would it be wise to buy some and add it to the litter?

We are also looking at making the whole back wall of the coop swing open so we can clean off the droppings board and clean out the litter. Should that not be done? Would it be better to have just half the wall open, swinging up from the bottom? Would either be just fine as long as the wall has a tight fit when closed?

I know it's a lot of questions, and I'll probably have more when I get the picture done and put up here.
Thank you all for helping me so far, all this input is helping me make a better coop!

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Sure, and to make it weathertight just put weatherstripping or removeable caulk in the joint when you close it up. As long as it doesnt' stick out and/or is up where chickens can't access it, those work great.

Would a combination of hay, straw and rye chaff work well as litter and if so would the chaff store well if kept in a dry area? The plan is to use pine shavings or pellets for litter, but I do have access to hay, straw and rye chaff free of charge, I just have to collect it myself.

I don't personally like mixing anything with shavings if I'm going to be doing any spot-cleaning or leaving it in there long enough to have to stir it or mix it over. Fibrous stuff mats together, separate from the shavings, and just makes a glunky mess that does not behave well, IME with horse stalls. But, that said, it's not like you CAN'T do it, and if your chaff is all pretty short-staple then it may not be as much of a problem. Try it and see how you like it

The roof will be tar papered and shingled, probably the roof of the nest box as well.

With that size coop, I don't think there's really any value to having an external nestbox. There is plenty of room to mount it 14+" above the bedding, so they can walk under it. So, mount it INSIDE the coop, and if you want an external *access hatch* that's fine (it will need a bit of extra flashing atop it) but there are really only *disadvantages* to having the whole nestbox actually protruding outside the coop wall. IMHO.

The walls and roof shall be insulated with a second wall, and because the floor is raised I am curious about insulating that as well.

If you deeply want to insulate the floor, it doesn't *hurt* (make sure the underside is covered with plywood so they can't peck it from underneath). But if you can put 8-12" of dry fluffy shavings on the floor in winter, that alone will act as decent insulation. Not that more insulation *hurts*

The waterer may be kept outside in the summer but I don't think hens will come out for a drink in the winter, so an area will be set for the waterer to be in the coop. We'll make sure it isn't going to leak or easily spill.

More to the point, it's a lot easier to keep the water thawed in winter if it's in the coop

I've read a bit about the diatomaceous earth and how it helps dry things out. Would it be wise to buy some and add it to the litter?

You will just have to read (and perhaps once you have chickens also experiment) and come to your own educated decision. Personally, while I think it has some utility for some limited purposes, I do not believe in making the litter extra dusty with it just to compensate for deficiencies in ventilation or sanitation. That is, IMHO one should be keeping one's coop dry enough and odor-free enough FROM FIRST PRINCIPLES, not using DE to mask fundamental problems. But, your mileage and opinion may of course vary.

We are also looking at making the whole back wall of the coop swing open so we can clean off the droppings board and clean out the litter. Should that not be done? Would it be better to have just half the wall open, swinging up from the bottom? Would either be just fine as long as the wall has a tight fit when closed?

I dunno, whatever you think you will like best. Certainly it will be harder to engineer the whole wall opening (and still have the structure remain sturdy and sound over time, and weathertight in winter) than to have just a flap lower down; but it *could* be done either way if you want to enough.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat​

 

[Ferrret]

New Picture! Yeah, I'm not so handy with drawing straight lines with a tablet. My pencil and paper drawings look way better.
Anyhow, kind of the same as before: Black is the outline, Orangeish is the insides, Blue is screen, Brown is litter and Purple is ramp and run area (which should equal out to roughly 50 sq.ft., for 4 birds). The pink thing is a bit of an after thought about venting so I added it to ask here. I know some small shacks and fishing cabins have little pipe vents that have covers with a fan in them to blow air out. Would the same idea work in a coop, or be too much of a hassle to bother with?

Still 4' tall walls with an 18" rise. Roof is windowless. Drawing the nest box inside makes the drawing even more cluttered and weird, but placing it inside is no issue. There will either be a back hatch to get to it or I'll put it where I and the hens can reach it.
I may gather some chaff more for their nest than for litter. I have a very mild allergy to hay but being a little itchy isn't too bad.
The overhang I would like to be 6" and the front vent 6-8" and running the length of the wall.
I think if we add a window to the people door it will just be a window, no opening and closing, just something I can use to peek in on them from time to time.
Diatomaceous earth I think I will wait and see on. If it looks like it's worth trying after I have chickens then I'll give it a shot.

Oh, I keep forgetting to ask. How well does having vinyl/linoleum flooring work? Logically it should make the coop easier to empty out, but is there a downside to it?

 

[CityChook]

Windows: I'd add a frame for sure just because it will look better and function better. Even better still, look for some REAL windows that can be hooked on for the winter. Just like storm windows on a house. We did this on the playhouse coop. Driving my kids to who knows where, I found someone throwing out some old basement hopper windows - they were sitting on the curb and they told me to take as many as I could fit in my car. Geez my DH hates it when I go "junk'n". Anyways, we used one on the coop and it looks great. We put it on a hinge at the top, but it would be easy enough to use hooks at the top with a 3rd hook at the bottom (and secured indoors) to hang it like an old fashioned storm window. Could be secured and reasonably airtight for winter and then removed and stored away in the summer. No need to get out the drill.

Nest box and Floor: I decided against exterior nest boxes because of the cold weather. The eggs would be very cold and most likely broken by the time I got around to collecting them. Exterior boxes are difficult to insulate and since they are exposed on 5 sides they can be very very cold in our climate. For the floor, when we built the playhouse which is raised 24 inches, we didn't insulate the floor. But they are in deep litter in the winter and the hens did fine. Those shavings are surprisingly insulating.

DE: I have some DE, but truthfully I've used it VERY sparingly. It's terrific-ly expensive and super dusty. My coop is dry but I like to think that it helps keep the mite/lice potential under control. When I put fresh shavings in, I sprinkle a light dusting on top with a flour sifter.

Back Wall: I'd probably make it the whole door to give you better access. Maybe consider making your roost removable, and the droppings board too. Just remember to have LOCKS on your hasps to deter raccoons.

ETA: I forgot to send the above post before breaking for dinner.... and now look... there's a new drawing.
Roof in Front: Put a gutter on that overhang that is over the run or you'll end up with lots o' water running into the run with each rainstorm.

Pop Door: Decide now in the design phase how you're going to operate and lock the pop door.

Vents: Front vent looks fine. I'd still put in at least a 12x12 vent (I used air intake vents from Home Depot) in the peak of each gable. Remember, you want to let the hot air OUT, and at the highest point is where it's going to go. Also, you have the option of closing up that front vent in the winter, when cold air will be entering at roost level, and still can rely upon those top vents to carry you through the winter.

Vinyl: Yes, vinyl makes clean up easier. Also deters hiding spots for mites by sealing up the floor. Also guards against water damage to the floor if your waterer gets spilled. Only downside I can see is if water gets spilled and seeps under the tile and makes it lift. I just primed/painted the floor when I did the walls. Quick, effective and free and still looks nice.

 

[Ferrret]

All openings will be lockable so that raccoons, opossums, and other crafty animals can't get in. Might even make it hard for kids to get in there, although there aren't any small children around regularly.

I had wondered about adding a gutter, it just seems like a good idea.

About the 12x12 vents in the gables, would it be wise to take a foot off of the side windows and add the gable vents? Or maybe just resizing and repositioning the side windows to be gable vents? I had milled over making the side window/vents wider and shorter and putting them as high up as possible.

The droppings board will be removable so it can be cleaned really well when it needs more than just a scraping. The vinyl flooring appeals a lot because it just seems easier to clean and care for. Would using shelving brackets (?) be good for making the roost removable?

Operating the pop door, I have been thinking about making a small door in the run that I can use to gain access to the run and hens for things like letting them in and out, locking that door and feeding/watering them in warmer weather. The door would have to be on top and lockable, but getting it to work they way I think it should could get tricky. (mostly because I over think sometimes)

Beh... it's the wee a.m. hours. I need sleep. I'm questioned out for now anyhow.

 

[CityChook]

Vents: Are you worried about too many openings? I'd leave the windows alone - solar gain will help you warm up the interior in the wintertime and the windows will be open in summer adding cross breeze and ventilation. Good = good. They're not big anyways (2x2 I think that you said?) and making them much smaller would look weird and decrease their functionality. If I was to remove/resize anything, I'd remove that front vent and then make the gable vents even bigger. But you'd probably end up with a triangular opening at the top of the gable.

Removable Roost: Seems like shelving brackets would work. I just built a "U-shaped-cradle" for the ends of the roost to sit in and when I want to remove it for cleaning, it lifts out. I did build a support in the middle so it wouldn't sag, although that's probably not totally necessary.

Pop Door: A small door at the top of your run will add challenges. What are you going to do with a (sick/injured/naughty) bird that is hiding under the coop? Trust me - when you're in a hurry (and probably in high heels or nice clothes) and need to herd them into the coop before THEY want to go, they're going to run to the farthest non-reachable area. Like a toddler. Think like a mom. I'm wondering if a large door on the side, next to the pop door, might serve you better.

Try not to over think these design features. Make your coop SIMPLE and functional. There is great beauty in clean design.

 

[Ferrret]

A large side door on the run would probably work better. I don't get dressed up in very nice clothes and heels often, just never really have a lot of occasions for it, so crawling in the run to get a stubborn bird to get moving shouldn't be an issue.

I'm not worried about having too many open spaces, but I have noticed that fitting a nest box in the coop on a wall I can reach is a little harder when there is a big window in the way. I was thinking about making the entire gable an open space. That would make it nearly 2' tall and almost 6' wide at the bottom. (Have to leave a couple inches at the wall edges and above the door.) Then I could have more wall space to hang a nest box and put in waterers and feeders.

I think we may keep a 2x4 as a roost all year so some shelving clips with corners I'm thinking should keep the roost in place while leaving it removable. We might also be able to take some scraps of plywood from building the coop to make a holder for the roost.