Opinions on Coop Location Within Run

[AmyJane725]

Don't worry about rain protection for the chickens, that is not an issue. They can handle that on their own as long as they have a dry place to go to if they want to and a dry place to sleep

Keeping water out of the run is an issue. To me this is a huge issue. You might want to read this to get some ideas.

Pat’s Big Ol' Mud Page (fixing muddy runs):

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/how-to-fix-a-muddy-run-chicken-coop.47807/

Another issue is heat, not your normal days but extreme weather. As long as your coop has good ventilation and does not channel wind to blast them when sleeping, winter should not be a problem for you. It looks and sounds like you will have plenty of shade in the summer, I don't see a lot of issues with that. But a couple of things to think about. That metal can get really hot if the sun is shining directly in it. That's a south, west, or southwest exposure unless trees provide enough shade. Maybe that metal doesn't need to go on those exposed sides. Another consideration, you don't want your nest to become an over so don't put your nests where the sun shines directly in them.

Looking at those shadows it looks like you will have plenty of shade on the coop. As long as you can handle drainage I think you will be fine. Good luck!

Thanks for the tips and resources. I think I will stick with my current plan, which was to have the coop in the back left corner (with the nest boxes on the left side of the coop, so they should be under tree cover/in the shade. I can then put the metal roof on the right half of the coop and have a gutter with a drain pipe leading back further into the forest. The back right corner is more sunken than everything else, so I think it would be beneficial to have the water carried away from it.

I'm not sure how muddy things will get. Right now the spot is basically just coniferous/deciduous forest floor. There are little sticks from the cedar trees, a tiny bit of grass, some moss, and lots of little plant debris from the trees. Maybe a few dandelions, but probably not enough sun for that. Our soil is also quite rocky, so I don't know how muddy the run will ever get overall. I know chickens can't eat cedar tree sticks. I know they'll eat the grass. Not sure on the moss, and I'm not sure how interested they'll be in the cedar debris.

My current plan is to try the deep litter method, and then toss the composted litter into the run when it's done. Is that ok? To put dirty litter into the run? I mean, if I put fresh down they'll just poop all over it and it'll get dirty anyway. For my litter I plan to use pine shavings and a sprinkling of DE. I figure the pine shavings will be good because they won't dissolve in the mud and they should keep it more stable out there.

I'm not quite following you on this part: "That metal can get really hot if the sun is shining directly in it. That's a south, west, or southwest exposure unless trees provide enough shade. Maybe that metal doesn't need to go on those exposed sides."

The only places I'm planning on the metal are the the roof of the coop, the roof of the nesting boxes, though those will just be enclosed cubes with the metal over the top to keep the rain away (it's not like they could stand up and burn their combs on the metal. There will be wood above them), and the right half of the run roof. No metal on the side walls at all.

I'm probably misunderstanding you, but that's what I took away. Any clarification is appreciated. And thanks for the luck. I'll probably need it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I'm not quite following you on this part: "That metal can get really hot if the sun is shining directly in it. That's a south, west, or southwest exposure unless trees provide enough shade. Maybe that metal doesn't need to go on those exposed sides."

The only places I'm planning on the metal are the the roof of the coop, the roof of the nesting boxes, though those will just be enclosed cubes with the metal over the top to keep the rain away (it's not like they could stand up and burn their combs on the metal. There will be wood above them), and the right half of the run roof. No metal on the side walls at all.

I'm probably misunderstanding you, but that's what I took away. Any clarification is appreciated. And thanks for the luck. I'll probably need it.

I misread that, thought you were having metal on sides of the run also. I just wasn't paying enough attention, I guess. Sorry. Metal on the run roof is fine. Metal on the roof of the coop should be fine, even if it is in the sun. Mine is metal. It will get hot but by the time they go to bed it should have cooled off.

If the nest is where the sun can hit the metal roof, I'd think about that. I'm not that worried about the metal getting hot enough to burn you or them, though it can get so hot I won't pick it up without a leather glove or some good protection.. But if that nest is very enclosed the hot metal may radiate enough heat to turn it into an oven. A lot of that depends on how the nest is made.

 

[AmyJane725]

If the nest is where the sun can hit the metal roof, I'd think about that. I'm not that worried about the metal getting hot enough to burn you or them, though it can get so hot I won't pick it up without a leather glove or some good protection.. But if that nest is very enclosed the hot metal may radiate enough heat to turn it into an oven. A lot of that depends on how the nest is made.

Well, my nest boxes will open from the back (like a mailbox) rather than the top, so I shouldn't ever have to touch the metal. And it will be in the shadiest spot, so I'm really hoping the oven thing won't happen. The nest boxes will be 16x16x16 wooden cubes with the open side inside the coop so they can get inside the boxes from inside the coop. Tee metal will provide cover to keep rain and snow from just pooling on top of them. It will attache to the wall of the coop above the box and just provide a little angled roof. Not sure what other construction considerations there are. Any input is welcome.

 

[PouleChick]

Look forward to seeing your build progress, sounds like you have though it all through!

 

[aart]

My current plan is to try the deep litter method, and then toss the composted litter into the run when it's done. Is that ok? To put dirty litter into the run? I mean, if I put fresh down they'll just poop all over it and it'll get dirty anyway. For my litter I plan to use pine shavings and a sprinkling of DE. I figure the pine shavings will be good because they won't dissolve in the mud and they should keep it more stable out there.

Deep litter is not just pine shavings and poop.
Managing a truly composting deep litter can be tricky, you have to understand what it contains(both materials and the organisms that break it down) and how it works in order to manage it effectively or it can turn into an unhealthy nightmare. It's not just piling up a bunch of stuff and, viola!

Here's some good reading:
The term 'deep litter' is often misunderstood and misapplied.
I've always liked this explanation:
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1075545/can-i-do-deep-litter-method-with-this-coop#post_16440037

TalkALittle's post on DB vs DL: http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1075545/can-i-do-deep-litter-method-with-this-coop#post_16440037

Here's a great description of contents and how to manage organic 'bedding' in a run or coop...and there's a great video of what it looks like.
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1037998/muddy-run-help-please#post_16017992

 

[AmyJane725]

Thank you for all the good information aart. I will look at all of it once I'm more awake. I was up until 5:30 this morning working on sketches for the contractor. I'm usually creatively blocked, and every so often I make an important decision and get a wave of inspiration and can't stop until I've got my plan down.

 

[feathermaid]

Sorry. I don't quite understand what you're saying in the first paragraph. "...whatever side will offer the most shade would be best." for what? Having the coop there, or covering with the metal run roof?

Very good point about the gutter. I had my last contractor out today. Put down a deposit with them. Told them I needed a gutter on the metal roofed side of the run. Great tip. There was one corner of the run I was worried about, as it's lower than the others, so a gutter should take care of it. Thanks again.

I don't think it matters much as long as there's a good amount of shade, and your area looks like it should provide enough throughout the day to not be of too much concern. And like others have said, the amount of covered area isn't as important as drainage and keeping the mud away.

My current plan is to try the deep litter method, and then toss the composted litter into the run when it's done. Is that ok? To put dirty litter into the run? I mean, if I put fresh down they'll just poop all over it and it'll get dirty anyway. For my litter I plan to use pine shavings and a sprinkling of DE. I figure the pine shavings will be good because they won't dissolve in the mud and they should keep it more stable out there.

I personally would not use shavings in the open run area, I can see that turning to a slimy muddy mess. I use shavings in my covered run area and it got pretty wet from seepage before my gutter system was finished... total yucky disaster! Shavings are meant to break down quickly when mixed with nitrogen, and deep litter needs a good balance of moisture to work properly (moisture from poop). Direct rainfall is not a good balance. DE is actually pretty worthless in deep litter because if it actually does kill bugs, then it's eliminating all the beneficial microbes and bugs needed to make the system great.

And puny lightweight shavings will dissolve in mud. OK not really, but they'll sink and disappear far quicker than wood chips on wet ground, maybe less than a couple months, and when that happens they basically become part of the dirt, which means mud when it rains. Areas open to the weather need something much more substantial, like chunky wood chips, to last through winter(s)... unless you enjoy buying and changing bedding quite often. And where would you put it all? It takes about 6-12 months to fully compost and be usable in a garden. I guess you could keep adding more on top, but that could be an endless venture.

I expect my wood chips to last a few years. My chickens poop and the rain washes it off the surface of the chips. These chips have been around for a year now and they haven't sunk during all the rain over winter and my birds haven't seen any mud even though they scratch and dig holes everywhere. But they can never reach the soil because of the barrier I laid.

I put the old coop shavings in my compost bin and the chickens turn it for me (there's also an old trellis top for a hangout perch). When the wood chips break down beyond their usefulness, I'll probably spend a weekend shoveling them out and spread the mulch around my landscaping.

Ridgerunner left a great link for you earlier... here it is again:
How to Fix a Muddy Run

and another that I based my system off:
Mud Management (Newland Poultry)

Sorry for that really long post. I just think ground management is more important than which side of the run to put the coop.

 

[AmyJane725]

I don't think it matters much as long as there's a good amount of shade, and your area looks like it should provide enough throughout the day to not be of too much concern. And like others have said, the amount of covered area isn't as important as drainage and keeping the mud away.



I personally would not use shavings in the open run area, I can see that turning to a slimy muddy mess. I use shavings in my covered run area and it got pretty wet from seepage before my gutter system was finished... total yucky disaster! Shavings are meant to break down quickly when mixed with nitrogen, and deep litter needs a good balance of moisture to work properly (moisture from poop). Direct rainfall is not a good balance. DE is actually pretty worthless in deep litter because if it actually does kill bugs, then it's eliminating all the beneficial microbes and bugs needed to make the system great.

And puny lightweight shavings will dissolve in mud. OK not really, but they'll sink and disappear far quicker than wood chips on wet ground, maybe less than a couple months, and when that happens they basically become part of the dirt, which means mud when it rains. Areas open to the weather need something much more substantial, like chunky wood chips, to last through winter(s)... unless you enjoy buying and changing bedding quite often. And where would you put it all? It takes about 6-12 months to fully compost and be usable in a garden. I guess you could keep adding more on top, but that could be an endless venture.

I expect my wood chips to last a few years. My chickens poop and the rain washes it off the surface of the chips. These chips have been around for a year now and they haven't sunk during all the rain over winter and my birds haven't seen any mud even though they scratch and dig holes everywhere. But they can never reach the soil because of the barrier I laid.
View attachment 1694563 View attachment 1694564 View attachment 1694581
I put the old coop shavings in my compost bin and the chickens turn it for me (there's also an old trellis top for a hangout perch). When the wood chips break down beyond their usefulness, I'll probably spend a weekend shoveling them out and spread the mulch around my landscaping.

Ridgerunner left a great link for you earlier... here it is again:
How to Fix a Muddy Run

and another that I based my system off:
Mud Management (Newland Poultry)

Sorry for that really long post. I just think ground management is more important than which side of the run to put the coop.

It's fine. I appreciate all the insight. I'm probably failing to see the forest through the trees here. It's nice having everyone here to get me to focus on the right things.
I'm definitely going to cover the right side of the run and have the gutter with the drain pipe leading away since I'm more worried about that side. Having a gutter on the other side (the open side) would be pointless, right? Since the ceiling is just hardware cloth and all the water will fall through (that isn't blocked by trees). Should I just roof the entire thing and have gutters on both sides?


I mean, this is all assuming that the chickens are going to turn the entire run to mud, right? Because there's not a lick of mud out there at all, any time of year.

If I decided to copy you and put some kind of mesh down, would I be shooting myself in the foot to not do it before the coop is installed (because getting the mesh down under the coop legs would be basically impossible) and my only recourse at that point would be to have a rectangle of it cut out and placed under the coop and hope that the edges don't get pulled up? I mean, the mesh isn't all just one big solid piece right? It's laid down in strips and then staked into place, so maybe I could do it in the future if I needed to? I'm sorry, my posts are just kind of "stream of consciousness" at this point...

 

[feathermaid]

Haha I feel your pain. I labored over my coop design for months and once it was finished, I was ready to design something totally new again! Don't worry, it sounds like you're really putting a lot of thought into everything and I'm sure your chickens will have a great home. If you find that later on something isn't working quite right, you can always adjust. I think every person here on BYC has ongoing coop projects... you're committed now, it'll be your new lifestyle!!

As far as gutters go, each roof surface will need one. If the roof slopes away (to the outside perimeter) of the run, you need a gutter because you don't want the runoff pooling on the ground and seeping back into your dry area (I've had this happen before). If the roof slopes down toward the center of the open exposed part of the run, you definitely want a gutter there. Regular rainfall is totally different than roof runoff. For an example, my 4x16 roof will fill a 5 gallon bucket in 2 hours. Imagine dumping that much water in your run in addition to regular rainfall... not pretty.

What about a rain collection system? I have a rain chain into a bucket, with a little spigot and a hose that extends across my yard, connects to a soaker hose and drains the water to my garden beds. Not exactly a collection system, more of a re-distributor, but it works for me.

 

[feathermaid]

If I decided to copy you and put some kind of mesh down, would I be shooting myself in the foot to not do it before the coop is installed (because getting the mesh down under the coop legs would be basically impossible) and my only recourse at that point would be to have a rectangle of it cut out and placed under the coop and hope that the edges don't get pulled up? I mean, the mesh isn't all just one big solid piece right? It's laid down in strips and then staked into place, so maybe I could do it in the future if I needed to? I'm sorry, my posts are just kind of "stream of consciousness" at this point...

If you decided to use a ground barrier, you could easily do it around the coop and not underneath at all... that's what I did. I used landscape fabric pins to hold it down. But don't use actual landscape fabric for the barrier... chickens will tear it up into ragged poof balls. Don't ask me how I know.

No rush on that, best to wait til the ground is dry anyway. Chickens can enjoy finishing off the grass first. But get the ground prepared before fall and winter rains. You could call tree-cutting companies and have them drop off free wood chips now so they'd have time to dry out and age a bit before adding to the run. I just learned that fresh chips can harbor a type of mold that wouldn't be healthy for chickens. I can't find the article right now. But older-ish chips are great.

*edit* forgot to quote