Options for cramped run...predator protection during free roaming

[metar28]

Okay, so I have multiple questions I need help with. This is an amazing forum with so many educated folks helping out!

Here it goes...

Started out with 8 chicks last year. Lost 3 girls over the summer / fall. Did well with the 5 remaining during the winter, kept decent egg production and survived the bitter cold NE months.

Decided to increase our flock this year to account for the lost birds. Added 10 chicks (well, 9 now because somehow we lost a chick in the first week and don't know how she escaped the cage in the garage... still a mystery..) By the summer we figured we would have a nice flock of 14 hens. Then in the past week separated by only days, we lost 3 hens, each in the early evening! We have 13.9 acres and we have an automatic coop door that opens at 2:30 and closes at 8:30, which I will change to 9:00 since days are getting longer. The coop is very secure and we've never had a problem with night visitors. Some scratches on the window screens but the window pane was only open a few inches so no one could get in. The problem is the girls like to roam and when I mean roam, they go back to the perimeter of our woods, the neighbors' yards, the front yard, the fenced in goat area... they are a predator's dream really.

We have a 17' x 7' building that houses an 8' x 7' coop with a partitioned, adjacent space of 3.6' x 7' for the younger birds. That gives me roughly 80'-81' square feet to work with inside. The other portion of the building are bunk beds for the goats.

Yesterday after our third loss in one week (our favorite hen, BTW) we decided no more free ranging until I finished building the chicken run right outside the coop. I thought I had a good design in mind, but the more I read I am terribly concerned by it's size. Because of the path to the goat pasture and a vehicle thruway, I only have an 8' x 11' space to work with. I could possibly do a 10" x 11' run but that would be pushing the area. (see attached photo)

Well, to complicate things... after seeing my son cry last night because "his" pet chicken was taken I knew we needed to get more hens to replace our losses. I now own 7 more 7-8 week old chicks! In NY you have to buy a minimum of 6 birds and well, I just couldn't pass up a beautiful Ameracauna.

That brings our flock to 18!!! (Never really intended to have more than 12 birds at any one time...oops...) I believe our coop space is sufficient, but I believe the run is going to be way too small. Ultimately I would like to let the girls out again. I do love seeing them in the yard, but I would expect losses again. Sigh...

Some of the newbies are show quality and I definitely don't want to lose those 5.

Some thoughts come to mind.

1. Get a chicken tractor to supplement the run so some of the girls can be split up during the day. On another note, if anyone has a good idea of how to get the hens from the run into the tractor without physically having to pick up each one and put her there... that advice would be much appreciated!
2. Get a rooster for protection. (Not that I need another bird, but if I want to free range again I could use a watchful eye.) But, would I need 2 roosters for a flock of 18 girls? If so, will I have to separate the roosters in the coop and how do you keep them from fighting? Will a rooster be mean to me or the kids? What type of rooster is the best for protection? Do you get a young one or a full grown one?
4. Let them all stay in the 8' x 11' run and just make sure there are plenty of leaves, grass clippings, sand, etc. to forage through? Would this stress out the birds? I was going to do a 3' tall run, but now I'm thinking I should go up to 6' to make the space feel more open and possibly add a resting bar so they can fly up to it and stretch their wings.
3. Get a guard dog. If so, what type is the best breed? This is kind of my last option because I'm not a dog person. (And it would have to be an outside dog anyway...no doggie in the house to shed hair and lounge on our good furniture.) Just another thing to take care of and be responsible for... I have enough with 3 boys under 9, 4 goats and now 18 chickens!

What does everyone think of my predicament? What would you do?

 

[Whittni]

I think a rooster or two will really help you out with predator problems. I'd go with older birds. Don't get a dog that you won't enjoy but the best breed is usually a Great Pyrenees. Your chickens would also be ok if you just built a really secure run that foxes and coyotes can't dig into. If you build a run don't forget a top to keep hawks and owls out. 6ft tall is good and so is the roosting bar idea.


I've heard llamas help too.

Best of luck!

 

[4 the Birds]

Okay, so I have multiple questions I need help with. This is an amazing forum with so many educated folks helping out!

Here it goes...

Started out with 8 chicks last year. Lost 3 girls over the summer / fall. Did well with the 5 remaining during the winter, kept decent egg production and survived the bitter cold NE months.

Decided to increase our flock this year to account for the lost birds. Added 10 chicks (well, 9 now because somehow we lost a chick in the first week and don't know how she escaped the cage in the garage... still a mystery..) By the summer we figured we would have a nice flock of 14 hens. Then in the past week separated by only days, we lost 3 hens, each in the early evening! We have 13.9 acres and we have an automatic coop door that opens at 2:30 and closes at 8:30, which I will change to 9:00 since days are getting longer. The coop is very secure and we've never had a problem with night visitors. Some scratches on the window screens but the window pane was only open a few inches so no one could get in. The problem is the girls like to roam and when I mean roam, they go back to the perimeter of our woods, the neighbors' yards, the front yard, the fenced in goat area... they are a predator's dream really.

We have a 17' x 7' building that houses an 8' x 7' coop with a partitioned, adjacent space of 3.6' x 7' for the younger birds. That gives me roughly 80'-81' square feet to work with inside. The other portion of the building are bunk beds for the goats.

Yesterday after our third loss in one week (our favorite hen, BTW) we decided no more free ranging until I finished building the chicken run right outside the coop. I thought I had a good design in mind, but the more I read I am terribly concerned by it's size. Because of the path to the goat pasture and a vehicle thruway, I only have an 8' x 11' space to work with. I could possibly do a 10" x 11' run but that would be pushing the area. (see attached photo)

Well, to complicate things... after seeing my son cry last night because "his" pet chicken was taken I knew we needed to get more hens to replace our losses. I now own 7 more 7-8 week old chicks! In NY you have to buy a minimum of 6 birds and well, I just couldn't pass up a beautiful Ameracauna.

That brings our flock to 18!!! (Never really intended to have more than 12 birds at any one time...oops...) I believe our coop space is sufficient, but I believe the run is going to be way too small. Ultimately I would like to let the girls out again. I do love seeing them in the yard, but I would expect losses again. Sigh...

Some of the newbies are show quality and I definitely don't want to lose those 5.

Some thoughts come to mind.

1. Get a chicken tractor to supplement the run so some of the girls can be split up during the day. On another note, if anyone has a good idea of how to get the hens from the run into the tractor without physically having to pick up each one and put her there... that advice would be much appreciated!
2. Get a rooster for protection. (Not that I need another bird, but if I want to free range again I could use a watchful eye.) But, would I need 2 roosters for a flock of 18 girls? If so, will I have to separate the roosters in the coop and how do you keep them from fighting? Will a rooster be mean to me or the kids? What type of rooster is the best for protection? Do you get a young one or a full grown one?
4. Let them all stay in the 8' x 11' run and just make sure there are plenty of leaves, grass clippings, sand, etc. to forage through? Would this stress out the birds? I was going to do a 3' tall run, but now I'm thinking I should go up to 6' to make the space feel more open and possibly add a resting bar so they can fly up to it and stretch their wings.
3. Get a guard dog. If so, what type is the best breed? This is kind of my last option because I'm not a dog person. (And it would have to be an outside dog anyway...no doggie in the house to shed hair and lounge on our good furniture.) Just another thing to take care of and be responsible for... I have enough with 3 boys under 9, 4 goats and now 18 chickens!

What does everyone think of my predicament?

I would continue with the run build. The run should be fully enclosed and predator proof so that they can move from the coop or run without fear of an attack or any worries when you are away. You can add a free range area and it should have a fenced perimeter. A 1/2 acre or full acre is more than plenty for them to free range. The goats and chickens free ranging together will be a bonus because goats are VERY alert and they would also discourage aerial predators. You could close up the run during the night since night time is when more 4 legged predators are out on the prowl. Adding a rooster would also help since he would sound the alarm and help round up hens at dusk. Having multiple roosters is not great since they tend to fight to establish hierarchy (we have 4 roosters).

Our chickens free range with goats and we have a dog pack that lives on the property outside the goat/chicken pen. Never had a chicken loss to a predator. A dog or dogs in the property would be a big asset but I would nix that idea unless you love dogs and enjoy caring for them.

 

[ChickCrazed]

Is there any space on the other side of the drive to add more run space? My thought is that you could build two separate runs and put a "chunnel" (google it) to connect the two that could be moved if you had to get a car through. Or build the run you are planning, but add "levels" to it so they can still spread out across multiple levels. Or fence in the whole surrounding area. Your run space will be tight to be in there full time but you could always do limited free ranging. I only let my kids out a couple hours before bed so they don't have time to wander or get into trouble. A rooster would always help. I don't see why you need two roosters, one should get the job done. You might need two if you are wanting most of the eggs to be fertilized, but strictly for protection one would suffice to keep watch. I would go with a rooster that is at least a year old so you know whether he is nice or not - roosters are super easy to come by. I would not get a dog if you are "not a dog person".

 

[donrae]

If you're not a dog person and don't want a dog, don't get one. Sounds like it's be a recipe for resentment

I'd also re-think the rooster, with all your little boys. Roosters and small children can be tricky as roosters are NOT wired to be pets. It can be done, but it would take the right rooster and handling. If you do go with a rooster, one is plenty. Folks read the 1:10 thing, but that's for optimal fertility. One rooster would do fine with that many hens. I'd get a younger rooster and put him in with your older girls as soon as you can. The mature ladies will help teach him good manners

Have you looked into electric fencing/netting? Sounds like it could be a good thing for daytime free ranging for you. I'm not sure how to get them back and forth unless you can make a tunnel somehow. Or, maybe they could be trained to go back and forth. I can just see your little boys in a line, guiding them to the free range area

 

[metar28]

Wow, I already have a lot of good ideas from the responses. Thanks!

First, I picked up a little Rhode Island red rooster today. He was being raised in the same group where my 7 assorted hens I purchased yesterday came from. He is about 8 weeks old. Very sweet, docile little fellow. Only got one rooster per recommendation from the local chicken breeder / expert and BYC folks. And went with a younger one since he was already a coop mate with the new additions. Since we only have 2 full size hens left, there are way more young ones for him to get attached to first and then be introduced to the older ladies in 6-8 weeks.

I am continuing with the run. I am able to make a 11.5' x 9.8' size with 7' ceiling. Going up the sides with 1/2" x 1/2" x 3' tall hardware cloth. Above that will be 2" x 3" x 4' tall plastic coated woven (welded?) wire.... thinking about attaching a 1" x 1" poly resin plastic garden netting behind the woven wire... is that overkill??? Top will be enclosed with the same 2" x 3" wire as the upper sides. Once again thinking about putting the poly resin fencing behind that. But, the snow build up might become a problem if the weave is too close together. I will have an 18" apron using the 1/2" x 1"/2" hardware cloth and stone on top. The run is not intended to be used as a overnight shelter. Mostly for times when I want them to get out of the coop but not be free ranging because I am away, etc.

I love the idea of free ranging with the goats. Although I've never known my 4 Nigerian Dwarf wethers to be "alert" about anything, except when they hear me coming towards the pellet bin! LOL We have 1/2-1/3 acre fenced in and I'm already designing an idea in my head for a channel to get them from the run to the goat area. Speaking of, what is the smallest "doggie" door that a full size chicken can get through but that a goat cannot?

The goat fence used is 2" x 4" x 4'. The hens are always in there because they jump / fly up to the top of the fence and either hop in or out of the goat pen. So, I am thinking I should clip their wings... one side or both? Only flight feathers? Or, flight feathers plus secondary?

What do you guys think about adding a strand of hot wire at the top of the goat fence? Dual advantage of keeping the hens in and climbing predators out? If so, how high above the top of the woven fence should the strand be set?

 

[metar28]

I can just see your little boys in a line, guiding them to the free range area 
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Or the three of them chasing the flock while waving their arms madly like escapees from a mental ward... oh, and screaming like the wild animals they are. But then again, what do you expect from 5, 7 and 8 year old boys? Now if I had girls, guiding the flock would be a more realistic scenario! LOL

 

[ChickCrazed]

My pop door is 10.5" wide by 13" tall. I can't imagine a goat could fit through that and my giant chickens fit through just fine. Clipping their wings sounds like a good idea, I wouldn't worry about putting a hot wire on the fence right away. Most climbing predators are night time predators, and clipping the chicken wings until they get used to their area should keep them from being able to fly out. Plus you could always add it later if needed.