Organic feed for Broilers

[Bossroo]

My wife and I went grocery shopping last Saturday at an employee share owned and operated store. Going through the fruit and vegetable section seperated by area of "Organic" and one not identified. The first one had produce that was less apealing to the eye as to quality and also more pricey and in several cases up to twice the cost of the other. Now, the organic producers say they use sustainable methods and no pesticides, herbicides or other chemicals and also that the produce is locally grown so they must be saving the cost of these products and the cost of labor to aply them as well as transportation costs too. I would come to the conclusion that they would use more labor to hand or mechanically weed the fields. But I don't think that much more than the cost of the chemicals plus labor to apply them or in transporting the local produce. I would also think that they would do everything in their power to sell a quality and wholesome product as is claimed and at a competative price to as many people as possible especially in this economy where currently around 10 percent of the USA population is unemployed and many more barely able to put food on their table. Currently, many if not most of the small agricultural small towns in California ( and elsewhere, I presume) have up to 40% unemployed. This in the most productive agricultural area of the USA and cheep labor is going begging. So, why the huge difference in the product quality as well as the higher prices posted?

 

[Puck-Puck]

I haven't the foggiest, Bossroo. (Ask them?) I get around that by growing my own produce. Usually comes out looking okay, unless it's a bad year weatherwise for that crop. And it's fresh. And it's cheap, because it doesn't really take as long to do the weeding etc. as the time I actually spend in the garden...usually just admiring the progress! In my experience, there is no reason organic produce should look worse at harvest than commercial, and if one's following the principle of planting crops suited to the soil, there shouldn't be huge amounts of maintenance, either. (That's the theory. I'm a gardener and not a farmer.)

 

[j.luetkemeyer]

Someone can eventually minimize input costs by not only going to organic growing methods, but also utilizing more sustainable practices. Most farmers growing organically have lower outputs because they are fighting nature instead of utilizing it. For example, in order to growing healthy organic foods, you must have healthy soil. Most of the soil in this country has been destroyed by chemicals. It may take a couple years, or longer, just to get the soil back to health to sustain healthy plants. In the mean time you must bring in organic supplements. Once the soil is back in good health, you have weeds and pests to deal with. Monocropping is the worst form of farming you can do due to the lack of diversity that causes these two problems. Most organic farmers continue to monocrop. What you are paying for is a healthier product. Most people in this country would rather eat whatever and when they get sick or diseased they want the doctor to take care of it. Going organic is a way to keep the body healthy so it doesn't get sick and diseased. I guaranty the cost of being treated for cancer is much higher than the premium for organic. Some people growing organic are not real knowledgable of how to properly go about it so their produce is not attractive and possibly no healthier than the non-organic. You must research the grower/producer of the food you buy and find out how knowledgable they are. If nothing else, start growing your own food, or at least some of it.

 

[dancingbear]

I just grow my own, because (1) there's only a very small organic produce section at the local grocery (local, for me, is a 60 mile round trip) (2)it's expensive, I understand why, and I'm ok with the price they ask, I personally just don't have the money (3)there's no way I can "research the grower or producer", because I have no idea who they are (4) it's not even local produce, it's shipped in from across the country, which kinda negates the benefit of growing it organically, from a global environmental point of view.

So I grow as much as I can every year, and it's organic. The crops that do well in any given year are beautiful, and look as good or better than anything I see at the grocer's, organic or not. Not every single thing I plant does well every year, but I have more successes than failures. For example, I lost the cabbage this year, my first time to grow cabbage, but the okra did really well. My sweet corn was a flop, but my meal corn turned out very well. I got green beans galore, in spite of my poorly made supports that collapsed, requiring awkward poses to hold up sections of vines with one hand while picking with the other.

I don't have a lot of bug problems, anymore, the healthier plants don't attract them as much as stressed plants do. Weeds are another story, but still, the garden gets better every year.

I've been improving my soil for 11 years, it's only the last 5 or 6 that the produce has really gotten markedly better. It takes years to revive worn out or abused soil. That's part of the higher cost, right there. You don't just run out in a new patch of ground, start using organic methods, and bingo, get great results. It's a long process. The cost isn't limited to just one season's production.

The produce I still need to buy, I try to buy as much locally produced stuff as I can, or at least regional. Since I'm in KY, I'll buy Florida oranges rather than California or South Africa oranges. Georgia peaches instead of California. I avoid produce from other countries.

I don't agree at all that if you can't go 100% organic that it's not worth bothering. That's like saying if you can't afford the best dental care in the world, you shouldn't even bother to brush your teeth.

 

[bibliophile birds]

Quote:
like the others said, the biggest problem is that even people who have made the commitment to organic have a hard time letting go of modern farming practices. i could go on for hours about the problems of industrialized agriculture, but this isn't the place (and it's boring to most people

). basically, the only way modern farming works is by using chemicals. like j.luetkemeyer said, monocropping has almost become the only way we know how to farm any more. well intentioned, but still inexperienced, new organic farmers will rely on crop rotation alone, thinking that they will be maintaining their "healthy" soil by planting 100 acres of corn one year and 100 acres of sweet potatoes the next on the same plot. this is immensely better than planting corn year after year after year and relying on chemical fertilizers to "make up the difference," but it still depletes the soil. hence, produce that just doesn't seem so appetizing, even though it's organic.

most organic farms have to rely on planting huge amounts to ensure enough good product to be profitable. that's because they don't utilize good farming practices alongside organics. so, even though they cut out their chemicals expenditure, they spend a lot more up front to plant enough. polyculture is where sustainable agriculture should be headed, in my opinion. and this is where we really have to look back at farming history to get it right. crop rotation is the simplest form of polyculture, but multicropping, intercropping, and, especially, companion cropping are very important for healthy, productive organic farms. when these kinds of practices start being more widely used, prices will come down and quality will be much better.

but, again, it can't all be left up to farmers. mostly, we're a well meaning bunch who want to do the right thing, but we have to make a living like everyone else. i can't stress enough how important it is to take a real interest in your food sources. ideally, we would all be eating local, seasonal, organic foods... but who doesn't like to have bananas year round, in New England? we shouldn't ignore the nice things the modern world offers, we should just remember that it all comes with a cost that is a lot bigger than the price tag.

when farmers start being held accountable to their neighbors, things will really change. if you know the address of the place your lettuce comes from, that farmer is going to do what it takes to keep you from showing up on their doorstep demanding explanations.

 

[bibliophile birds]

oh, just wanted to add that there are some things that will never look as appealing as Big Agribusiness produce. that's because they cheat!

i remember when i was young i never wanted to eat the apples my great-grandfather grew in his orchard because i wanted "one of the big, shinny ones" they had at the store. i don't know many organic farms that can afford to wax and polish their apples until they shine...

and then there are other things that industrial farming will never be able to touch. a handmade sausage, made only with real, wholesome ingredients and cased in the pigs own intestines, just cannot be beat by anything they can make.

eta: also, there are unscrupulous people in every walk of life, and organic farming is no different. there are bound to be some people who will jump on the organic bandwagon because they see that there is, increasingly, a market for it, especially where you are, BossRoo, in California. this is another benefit of knowing where your food comes from: you can get a feel for why the person is organic and it should tell you what their quality will be. people in it for profits only are usually less worried about quality.

 

[jaku]

Quote:
Oh crap- I TOTALLY confused you with the earlier poster. I'm SO sorry! Deleting my post...

 

[bibliophile birds]

jaku: no hard feelings. i try really hard to debate these things in a positive way, so i was mostly worried that i'd somehow missed the mark.

 

[Bossroo]

Looking back in the history of the multigenerational family farm that is already paid for and where multicropping and sustaining crop rotation as well as natural fertilizers were used and the farming skills were passed on for the multi generations. So, if they followed their forefathers farming practices, How come there are now so few of them left and more of them are going broke every day? I see many more abandoned farm houses overgrown with weeds, dead trees and rusty cars and the only living thing around is a lone coyote.

 

[bibliophile birds]

Quote:
obviously, i can't speak for everyone, but i don't personally know anyone who has a paid-off farm, multigenerational or not. the very first thing that happens when things get tough is that another mortgage gets taken out. it's not a good practice, but it's what gets you through... until it doesn't. and then you close up shop.

plus, there is always the curse of the children who hope to never set foot on a farm again once they leave. i was away for nearly 8 years (went so far as to get a degree in Cultural Anthropology, specializing in SE Asia and Oceania, and moved to New Zealand) before i realized this was the place that i loved.

but when i said we needed to look back in farming history, i really meant much further than my great-great-grandparents. i meant back to the point where people buried fish in the fields to supply nitrogen to the soil. or when people paid attention to what crops grew together naturally because they realized there might be a reason. it's about finding a balance between prehistoric smarts and modern technologies.

eta: my father was raised with modern farming only. he was never taught any other way. my grandfather, a lawyer, has never been interested in the actual running of the farm, he just wants to live here and have it be profitable. so, when i became a managing partner, i had to learn it all on my own. i actually spent a year interning on other farms, of all types, to actually learn what the heck i was doing. i'm probably so eager to convince people about organic sustainable farming because i'm still constantly proving it's worth it to my own family. but i am proving it.