Organically fed animals

[MissPrissy]

The house was a run down farm house he inherited from his family. The house was remodeling making it a place to be able to live out their experimental year. Her husband did not always teach in southern Va. They sold out and moved from the desert of AZ all with the plan of her writing this book. It is not a book about the average American family and living self sufficient. It is a vehicle for their view of politics. That is my objection. It is smoke and mirrors aimed at the those who are changing the source of their food supply and trying to live better. You are correct that I don't have much respect for her or him. I don't like to be mislead.

 

[skatcatla]

Quote:
You misread what she wrote, skatcatla.

How so, MissPrissy?

(From the Michael Pollan article

"F.D.A. rules still permit feedlots to feed nonruminant animal protein to cows. (Feather meal is an accepted cattle feed, as are pig and fish protein and chicken manure.) Some public-health advocates worry that since the bovine meat and bone meal that cows used to eat is now being fed to chickens, pigs and fish, infectious prions could find their way back into cattle when they eat the protein of the animals that have been eating them. To close this biological loophole, the F.D.A. is now considering tightening its feed rules."

 

[skatcatla]

Quote:
Hmm. Well, you are of course entitled to not like Kingsolver's style, or politics, and to be perfectly honest, there were times that I found myself thinking that she did sound a bit sanctimonious. After all, its one thing to grow all your food when you live on a farm; what about those of us that live on tiny plots in the suburbs of a major city?

However, you haven't really mentioned why she's wrong. Do you have a factual objection to any of her writing? I found all of the sidebar information in the book to be pretty well-researched, and if anything, hardly groundbreaking given that other writers have reported similar information.

 

[lacyloo]

I saw on youtube a cow in india eat a pullet whole

 

[MissPrissy]

I am very sorry I am the one who has derailed this thread. I do not have the book. I got rid of it a long time ago. I would gladly discuss this at length if I still had a book in my hands.

I humbly apologize for derailing your post, hoosierhen.

 

[silkiechicken]

Quote:
I want someone to find me this journal and find me the scientific paper from a PEER REVIEWED source that contains this statement.

Just because someone says it is from so and so journal and a "scientist" said so does not mean that it is real or that it is even in a peer reviewed journal. There is a lot of bias media and publications that makes science look bad out there and I encourage everyone to find original sources for themselves. We don't want to be media sheep and we need to see both sides of the story.

For example, on youtube there is a video of a chicken being butchered and the people laughing at the flopping body. The video is in America. Does that mean all Americans find it fun to watch animals be killed and flopping? Please be critical of source and ask questions.

I can't seem to find the journal on pub med, and the only google search of that journal comes up with a gmail email account....

 

[skatcatla]

Here you go, Silkie. I was curious myself so I googled it. Man, they even broke down the trial results into brands of gum (Doublemint vs. Extra) !

I tell ya, truth is stranger than fiction.

http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/77/12/3392.pdf

 

[greyfields]

I purposely raise grass fed beef which is dry aged 21 days (instead of 21 hours like at a Safeway). You vastly reduce (some say to zero) your chances of getting E. Coli. through grass fed beef, since the virulent strains of the bacteria can only survive in an overly acidic belly... like the kind you find in feed lots.

I haven't read that information regarding BSE and mad-cow disease affecting humans (through Prions) being better or worse from grain vs. grass fed animals. It is an interesting subject.

I'll just comment that all my animals go through USDA inspection. If the animal is over 30 months old, no cuts with bone or spine can made. This is similar to the rules in England, since the prions have never been found in younger animals.

I would love to go organic, someday. But, right now, I have to deworm quite a lot in my climate. I'm not sure I could do it without causing my animals more harm than help. I have no issues at all giving an antibiotic to a sick animal. I DO have an issue giving antibiotics prophylactically.

 

[silkiechicken]

Thanks. It is in the Journal of Animal Science. NOT Journal of American Science. I still question the use of this practice outside of the lab in a commercial setting. Need to look at papers related to my work... a lab mate asked what I was doing looking at animal nutrition. LOL

 

[dlhunicorn]

Quote:
this is incorrect...no beef waste is allowed in chicken feed (not unless they have changed the laws)... it is why many look to game feed to get the meat protein they want for their chickens *not sure what the protein source for that is btw).....
However you do not need to worry about beef tissue (and possible prion disease from it) and your chicken feed because it is not allowed.

Actually, here in the United States it IS true. That fact was well-document and explored by Michael Pollan back in 2002 (way before Barbara Kingsolver's book). Not only is beef allowed to be fed to chicken, but that chicken by-product is allowed to be fed BACK to the beef, creating a closed loop system. You can read the full article ...........

I am only addressing the issue of beef protein being used in chicken feed ...it is forbidden
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/dairybeefprod.html
INFORMATION FOR DAIRY AND BEEF PRODUCERS -- PROTEIN FEED RULES
"Dairy and beef cattle producers are now prohibited from feeding to their cattle certain commonly used protein feed ingredients made from rendered mammalian tissue. The rules, issued in August 1997 by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), are designed to prevent the establishment and spread in the U.S. of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE). The disease, commonly known as "Mad Cow Disease," has been found in European cattle herds, but has not been diagnosed in the U.S.

The rule bans most types of protein made from mammalian tissue from feeds given to cattle and other ruminants (four-stomached-animals). An example of this protein is meat and bone meal made from cattle byproducts. Cattle may become infected with BSE when they eat contaminated protein products made from rendered diseased animals.

Feed manufacturers, protein blenders, and rendering companies are required to label any feeds or feed ingredients containing prohibited material with the warning statement, "Do not feed to cattle or other ruminants." FDA can take action against a company that sells prohibited material that does not have the warning label on it, especially if that feed is sold to cattle producers.

The rule has several provisions that apply to you, as a dairy or beef cattle producer:

You must watch for that warning label, and avoid using any prohibited feed in cattle rations.

If you suspect that feed may contain prohibited ingredients, do not accept it until you are sure it does not. Buy feed products only from companies that comply with the new rules.

If you mix feed for both cattle and non-ruminant animals (such as hogs and poultry) and you use prohibited material in the non-ruminant feed, you must either use a completely separate mixer for the cattle feed or carefully clean out your mixer to be sure no prohibited material contaminates the cattle feed. Even if you do not mix your own feed, but purchase feed for both cattle and non-ruminants, you must take steps to make sure that any prohibited material intended for your non-ruminant animals is not accidentally fed to your cattle.

You must keep records for a minimum of one year concerning all animal protein ingredients you buy and use with your cattle. For one year, keep copies of purchase invoices and labeling of all feeds that you receive containing animal protein products. The copies must be available for government inspectors. Keep at least one representative copy of the label from each type of feed you buy. FDA on-farm records inspections will be limited, but will be needed to verify that prohibited material is not being sold for feeding to cattle.

If you are careful in selecting feed and feed ingredients, and you keep adequate records, then you will not be found in violation of FDA's rules. More important, you will be doing all you can to protect your herd from risk of this disease.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Issued by:
FDA, Center for Veterinary Medicine,
Communications Staff, HFV-12
7519 Standish Place, Rockville, MD 20855
Telephone: (240) 276-9300 FAX: (240) 276-9115
Internet Web Site: http://www.fda.gov/cvm"

The restrictions increased in later years (the above from 1998)to include rendered fat (following per 2006) :
http://www.renderers.org/North American Rendering V 2.pdf
"Animal byproducts that would otherwise have been discarded have for centuries been rendered into fat which is an essential ingredient in the
manufacture of soap, candles, glycerin, and industrial fatty acids.
More recently animal protein meals have been produced as feed supple-
ments for companion, meat producing animals"

Rendering is a cooking and drying process that yields fat of varying grades, both edible and inedible, and animal and poultry protein meals. At one time fat was separated from raw material by boiling the raw material with water, a process known as wet rendering. Now it is done by dry rendering, a process that releases the fat by dehydrating raw material in a batch or continuous cooker. This process eliminates the direct physical contact of added water and live steam with raw materials. .................
..... Feed grade animal fat or more properly, "fat product, feed grade," as officially defined by the Association of American Feed Control Officials (2006) is "any fat product which does not meet the definitions for animal fat, vegetable fat or oil, hydrolyzed fat, or fat ester. It must be sold on its individual specifications which will include the minimum percentage of total fatty acids, the maximum percentage of....................................
.............The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has regulatory authority over the production of rendered products. Section 201 of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetics Act defines food as "articles used for food or drink for man or other animals." This section of the act categorizes animal feed with food for humans. ...."