Orpingtons - An ocean apart??

[lildinkem]

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Their looking great Joy. It is easy to see why you love your birds.

I have to play with the hand that was dealt to me. I make do with cast offs and "TRY" to make something out of them. My most recent freebie is TiTo. He is in with my one White Orp hen and have my fingers crossed that make some nicer birds that can compete someday.

He is a late December hatch. Just around 7 months old.

In the APA world Doug Akers is a master at conditioning birds and hatched this from two Buffs. He is called a Buff Sport to those who do not know. I was given him in May. And Doug said he was by far the biggest bird in his clutch outta 12 chicks. I am very impressed with his size. You can see the width in these couple of pics. He is a happy boy. In addition to my White hen, I have my true Mottled hen and my Exchequer pullet in with him. I seen him mounting and should be something interesting coming out.

 

[syble]

they have branched off from each other enough i think to be considered separate breeds. I like the massive fluff look of the uk style but it isn't the same as the american SOP. uk style has ALOT of fluff... many excellent birds from the uk i've seen (supreme grand champions ect) have enough fluff that you cant see feet, and you cannot see main tail feathers, their tails are a lustrous puff of feathers in oppose to a more structured tail.

American SOP birds are a bit more stream lined have tighter feathers (nothing like a Cornish but not particularly fluffy either, somewhere in the middle) seams that the uk birds have a higher back/tail then the US birds too.

Both beautiful birds to be sure, but they are quite different in appearance.
Sib

 

[lildinkem]

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Bill (?) is it?? Thank you for sharing that....I like especially the diagram chart showing the evolving of the body of the Orpingtons. It sounds like the American bodies were developed to be longer...where the English shorter and more of a U back??
In both the American and English....I'm assuming that there can be no speck of white on a black Orpington? I have a 2 1/2 month old English /American mix Black roo who looks quite nice so far in my unexperienced opinion...but he has a dot of "white" at his wing. I assume also that as he ages it won't disappear?? I don't show but would like to breed towards a good looking Orpington that adhears loosely to the "standard".

Yes I have many young juvies with the same White spot on one or two of their wing feathers. They will disappear as they grow out. No worries!
I too love this book. The Reliable Poultry Journal was apparently one of the "must haves" from the turn of the last century. MANY MANY great articles from legends of that time in Poultry were written in those books. They usually would have a book dedicated to each of the main stays of the various breeds.
One can make a UK type of bird here by just selective breeding. My Black cock as seen is an excellent example. He is much more impressive then his full brother Serpico. But, I bred Serpico to my Mottled hen and have a couple of very typee (APA) ofspring. Now, Serp is on the sidelines entertaining two very full bodied hens and I have yet to incubate any of their eggs. I am running 5 Black pens. And most likely send Serpico onward. I call it sending him to the "FARM". A reference to a line in the movie "A BOY & HIS DOG", a true classic and was Don Johnson's first movie. The farm is no where any chicken would want to go around here. lololol

 

[EweSheep]

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2x They are the same breed but different type. And UK Orps seems to be heavier in bone and structure.

 

[lildinkem]

One way for sure to tell the difference would be to attend this years Crossroads Poultry Show here in Indianapolis Oct 29th & 30th. I know there will be the very best of the APA style Orpingtons being shown here. And I can say safely there will be a few of the BBS Orps shown here to compare with. Then you can see in PERSON with your own eyes like I do everytime I show my birds what the major diffs are between the two. Seeing is believing.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Many poultry judges have stated that they are now seperate breeds. Just as the Australian Black Orpington...aka....Australorp became a seperate breed. It would be nice if the UK Orp breeders would join forces and seek admitance in the SOP as a sepearte breed. They would be part of the English Class, just not in the same breed as the American Orpington. This is what they did when the Australian Black Orpington arrived. It would only take 5 breeders breeding the UK Orp for 5 years and two shows with 50+ entries to qualify them. Oh, and $250 fee. I would be willing to raise some UK birds just to help get them recognised in the SOP as a sepearte breed. I know of several AOPF members that would be willing to assist in the SOP acceptance of the UK Orpington, as a seperate breed.

But crossing the two would be like crossing Australorps with Orpingtons. It can be done by master breeders for certain benefits, but there are lots of culls. Even with show quality stock from master breeders you will have a percentage of culls. Lots of Sunday dinners! I have a friend that has carefully used a Black Orp on his Australorps to bring the size back up. He now has 1/8 Orp blood in his current generation of Australorps. He has a lot of culls, but gets a lot of quality birds as well. But these are professional breeders with 20+ years of SOP breeding.

Several years ago some master breeders were using White Orpingtons to increase size and type in their Buff Orps. They also introduced a hybrid type improved egg production. Now years later they have "Buff Sports".

I am considering a Buff Orp project. A friend wanted some Buff layers. He can not have roosters. He wants $20 layers. So we placed an order for some Ideal Poultry Farms Buff Orpingtons. 25 total pullets. We will raise 6 for him and keep the rest. If they grow to be close to the SOP in type, size and color; and if their egg production proves good, we may start a project with using our show line of males. Dan Honour has considered this idea except with Buff Leghorns. Of course, we may just end up with my wife having a pretty colored backyard layer.

Note: anyone wanting to try this idea, may want to get some hatching eggs from Gabbard Farms in NW Arkansas (see eBay). Gabbards uses hatchery Buff Orp hens with exhibition SOP quality males. Chicks are not show quality, but better than most, if not all hatcheries.

 

[lildinkem]

Jim, I disagree. Many have merged the UK lines with the APA lines with spectacular APA quality offspring. I attended the Kentuckiana Poultry Show and met a very nice lady who has some Blues which are 1/2 APA and 1/2 UK. The hens were outstanding and IF not having to butt heads with Doug's 2 high quality APA Buffs MAY have won the BB.
Also a few years ago one of the APA most respected breeders shown a pure Black Orp APA line male as an Australorp and won a show. It is the ability to know what to cull for that determines what will win a given breed. And sometimes you may have what your breeding for. I am just now knowing what is the desried type. And it is not a cut away breast Orp. A FULL breast, GREAT tail, and most likely an EVEN colored Orp will win BB and even Champ English when competing.

 

[tennesseeckn]

Wow. This thread is less than 24 hours old and I have already learned a lot. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I never put Australia with Orp to get Australorp. Talk about a forehead smacker!!! Out of curiosity, is the breed known as Australorp in Australia, too? Also, did the APA adapt the Australian standards or were they modified?

 

[kathyinmo]

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Where did you hear this?


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That is what I have heard many times, Bill. Good luck with your Orps!

 

[rarely bored]

Wow! I'm learning so much.
Bill thank you for posting the book! So much information....
Justuschickens -- your birds are lovely! Do you know how much they weigh?
Jim your boy is huge! (love the family photos too, why am I craving watermelon?) I like the color on your bantam buff, but in the large fowl, would that color be considered to orange?

Oh, is that what an Australorp is???

Back to reading that book