overextended crop

[redwa]

I thought my chicken had sour crop. Turns out it was secondary to a mass stuck in her gizard. She's been at the vets this week - xrays, medication, mineral oil, etc. Her crop is still rather large but things seem to be moving (she's pooping). Anything I can do to help her crop size go back to normal? Will she always have this extra large crop? Seems problematic. She also seems to want to just gorge herself on food. She's a year old. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[dlhunicorn]

http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=emergencies&action=display&num=1161893898
...look in the thread above for the links mentioning CROP BRAS which are used for birds with distended crops

 

[redwa]

Thank you for your reply. I will be taking her into the vets tomorrow again for a check up and will discuss all the options with him. The information you supplied really helps.

 

[redwa]

Well, I took her back to the vets today. Crop still huge but smell is gone (on antibiotics for a bacterial infection, too). She's still pooping and good appetite. Vet suggested I limit her diet to highly nutritous foods, easily digestible: yogurt, brown rice, greens...) The idea is that once we get it down to its normal size and colonize the crop with probiotics, its normal functioning should return. Any thoughts? The hardest part of all of this is that she was once my friendliest chicken, jumped on my shoulder and would cuddle in my lap for some affection. Now she runs from me when she sees me coming. I hope this will change once we are over all this.

 

[Wooden_Pony]

I was going to tell you feed her yogurt.

I use to raise hand raise parrots for years. We would sometimes get babies that would have crop issues similar to your chickens.

After feeding yogurt, applesauce, brown rice, ect. they recovered and their crops functioned just fine.

 

[dlhunicorn]

...while dealing with the crop problems dont forget that such a "diet" is not meeting your birds daily nutritional needs... therefore you should be giving a complete supplement (the only complete nutritional supplement formulated for poultry I know of to the hobbyist is AviaCharge 2000>available to order online from McMurry or Strombergs)...not meeting your birds nutritional requirements can become a viscious cycle of secondary problems....

.and colonize the crop with probiotics..

...hmmmm actually while the yogurt will help, it is a misnomer to think it will "colonize" the crop... and if you are using live culture yogurt as the probiotic source you will need to offer this free choice on a daily basis even after recovery... here is a good little article explaining the principle of "competitive exclusion" and the use of probiotics within that context:
http://www.worldpigeon.com/Articles-11.html
(Gordon Chalmers-DVM >competitive exclusion and probiotics)
.....One inexpensive source of these friendly bacteria is plain yogurt, but you must buy the product that contains live cultures of bacteria (it's my understanding that yogurt containing either live or killed bacteria are available in Australia - buy the one containing live cultures of bacteria ). .....This approach of using "friendly" bacteria is based on research conducted by a scientist named Esko Nurmi in 1973. Working in Finland, this man developed a procedure in which he fed litter and droppings from salmonella-free, clean, healthy flocks of chickens, to normal, day-old chicks. Afterward, he found that these chicks were resistant to a challenge dose of salmonella organisms given to them by mouth. The principle behind this process is that "good" bacteria in the droppings of clean flocks of birds colonised the intestines of these chicks and simply overwhelmed sites of invasion by salmonella organisms. The same principle applies when a broody chicken scratches in the soil and calls her chicks to pick in that area. The intestines of these chicks are colonised very quickly with masses of "good" bacteria picked up in the soil at this time. In other words, this defence network competes with and excludes disease-producing bacteria -- hence the expression competitive exclusion.... there are two known mechanisms that operate to protect birds against disease when the principle of competitive exclusion is applied. Firstly, the "good" bacteria in the normal droppings seem to form within the intestine, a physical barrier that may be as much as 10-12 bacteria deep. These protective bacteria actually bind to specific sites on the inner surface of the intestine, and by this means, prevent contact by Salmonella sp. with the inner surface of the intestine, and so, prevent these disease-producers from breaching the wall of the intestine and entering the bloodstream.
The second process that occurs is an actual chemical alteration in the intestine. The "good" bacteria in clean droppings are anaerobic species (an = without; aerobic = oxygen), ie, they are able to live and reproduce in an environment in which levels of oxygen are low. In such a situation, the life processes of these bacteria are completed in an anaerobic state. In such an anaerobic environment, these organisms produce and excrete lactic acid as one of the by-products of their life processes. In turn, the lactic acid that is excreted by these bacteria into the surrounding environment of the intestine, creates a shift from a normally alkaline state to a more acidic, hostile condition in the intestine........
The importance of this fact needs to be re-iterated: many disease-producing bacteria like Salmonella sp. and E. coli, for example, like to live in a slightly alkaline environment -- such as the intestines -- where they can reproduce well. In an acidic environment, they are prevented from reproducing, and their numbers drop dramatically, in some cases by 97% or more. One of the many "good" bacteria present is the Lactobacillus sp. that we also find in yogurt and similar products used for human food.
Other "good" bacteria that are also present in yogurt include two species of lactic acid-producing Streptococcus, among others. The Lactobacillus sp. bacteria not only colonise the intestines, but they also attach to the wall of the crop, and are mixed with food that has just been eaten. As the food moves into the proventriculus and gizzard, and then into the intestine, the "good" Lactobacillus sp. bacteria move mechanically with it and multiply in the intestine. However, scientific information obtained from experiments using several pure cultures of Lactobacillus sp. in chickens showed that this organism alone was not capable of conferring on chickens, the desired resistance to Salmonella spp.. Additional methods had to be incorporated along with the use of Lactobacillus sp..
A few basic products incorporating these ideas of using "good" bacteria to combat Salmonella sp. infections have been examined in the poultry industry. One of these products is called "an unidentified culture". In this situation, intestinal contents from chickens known to be salmonella-free are incubated in a warm, anaerobic environment. The bacteria that are grown in this way are not specifically identified, but this culture is then fed to the birds. The second of these products is called "a defined culture", meaning that specifically identified bacteria from a culture of intestinal contents of normal chickens are included in a mix of bacteria that may contain up to 50 different species of bacteria.
There are also products called "probiotics" which are cultures of only a very few kinds of bacteria, ie, for example, the kinds that are found in yogurt. One such starter product for preparing yogurt at home contains a Lactobacillus sp., as well as two identified species of Streptococcus. One species of Streptococcus, that produced lactic acid, for example, was found to inhibit the growth of 75-85% of disease-producing strains of E. coli, but only 45% of livestock varieties of Salmonella spp..
In poultry, only the "unidentified culture" appears to be effective against salmonella organisms. "Defined cultures" and "probiotics" are more effective against disease-producing strains of E. coli, for example.
A fairly recent development is a mix of 29 bacterial types that is sprayed on newly hatched chicks. The birds pick at their down and of course, swallow the bacteria sprayed on them. These bacteria reproduce in the intestines and block the attachment of Salmonella spp.. It is possible that this spray could be helpful in pigeons as well.
In the poultry industry, these types of products have been used in at least three situations:
1. They are given to day-old chicks to allow the rapid colonization of the intestine with "good" bacteria which protect against infection by Salmonella sp..
2. In mature breeder chickens, these products are used if there has been an outbreak of salmonella infection. Birds are first treated with an appropriate antibiotic, after which they are given the "unidentified culture" to prevent re-infection.
3. At times of stress, these products are given to increase the numbers of "good" bacteria that, in turn, will increase the acidity of the intestines, and thereby decrease the risk of an outbreak of intestinal disease.


When should you NOT use yogurt?http://www.pigeonbooks.com/reviews.html
Colin Walker , DVM, Australia
...not to use yoghurt during tetracycline use (because it contains calcium,. which interferes with tetracycline absorption) and not to give yeast supplements (which are rich in vitamin B) while dosing with amprolium (because it works by blocking vitamin B use by coccidia).​

 

[redwa]

WOW! What an education I'm getting. Thank you... The vet also gave me an avian probiotic which I am suppose to give to her 2x/day, but it seems futile since she is on antibiotics for the bacterial infec. I think she'll be ok, it's just going to take awhile. The vet was hesitant to lance her crop to remove the contents. Suggested gavaging (sp?) if it doesn't go down. Already spent over $1000 on the girl. Ouch!