Ditto...forgot where I found the reference for this book, good book so far.
Pastoral Poultry, Traditional Farming For A Modern Era
- Thread starter bayocum
- Start date
Secret is I have the perfect homestead breed already I just dont have it breeding true yet. The recipe will follow later but first let me share my definition of Wisconsin's perfect homestead breed.
Wisconsin homesteaders need a true dual purpose fowl. A bird that the cockerels grow into to a marketable carcass (3.5lbs) in 16 weeks and pullets that lay 210 or more eggs per year. Next the breed must be all climate hardy. With summers where temps get well over 100 and winter temps get into the negatives these bird got to be tough. This also means giving them the gear. No single combs, medium feathering, and the smaller the wattles the better. I'll be expeirimenting with beards next year. The next thing is it needs to be a good winter layer. With winter like conditions 6 months out of the year cold better not keep them from laying eggs. Also it needs to be a setter. Incubators are nice but they dont raise chicks on range. When is say a setter she better hatch eggs by her second spring in lay. I have one bird that has four clutches raised and is one year and 4 months old. Another must is foraging ability, it needs to find its food on pasture when there is pasture to be had. Lastly I breed for quiet, curious, friendly animals. I like to have birds that are seen but not heard.lol
It took some time, almost 4 but I see the bird I envisioned running around this year.
1st year I took a friendly 9.5lb Delaware cockerel and crossed him over everything I had. RIRs, NHRs, SLWs, and BOs. I learned about single combs this year and knew I had to get some breed with a more cold hardy head. Kept the 2 best hens from the DelxBO, 1 DelxSLW and 1 DelxNHR. This was the size, fast development, and laying potenial I needed for my breed. It lacked the small combs and wattles I needed yet.
2nd year I took a DelxBO cockerel breed him to the SLWs and DelxSLW hens because I had noticed the rose comb hens would hatch out rose comb chicks even with a single comb Roo as the father. Long story short ate them all.
3rd year I knew what i had to do. I neede to improve combs, wattles, broodiness, and meatiness. So I selected several breeds for all these characteristics. I went first to the standard Cornish both the darks and the white laced reds. I also got Buckeyes, Dominiques, Kraienkoppes, Chanteclers, and Rhode Island Whites.
Right now the bird that is my perfect Wisconsin homesteaders breed is a half WLR Cornish 1/4th Delaware 1/4th BO pullet. I have several other half WLR Cornish pullets that I will be back crossing with a pure Delaware next spring for greater overall size then I'll be selecting from those for small combs and wattles. My final bird will have Cornish, Orpington, Delaware, and Chantecler in it genes. It will be shaped much like a Plymouth Rock just with out a comb or wattles and with the Jubilee cornish plumage pattern. If anyone is interested in chicks PM me.
- Thread starter
- #173
SJ,
That's awesome...exactly the kind of thing I was looking for from everyone. I loved reading that, along with your personal insight. We are lucky enough here to not have to worry too much about cold, but we do get our cold days. The biggest trouble is heat, so I'm constantly wondering whether I need the single comb, or if the pea comb is enough. Our Buckeyes do well, so maybe that's sufficient. But we too are looking for meat and eggs, just as long as the birds will work for themselves. I've toyed with the idea of introducing the cornish frame, but my cursory research says that most cornish today are geared toward the show ring. Right now I'm hoping that the Buckeye will carry this load. What breed are you using to get the "foraging" capabilities up to speed? At one point you said, "at them all," which cracked me up, but it also made me think, "what kind of flavor profile is SJ getting?" Well, how did they taste?
Anyone else have a secret recipe they want to share? This is the perfect place to do it...no judgment here!
Best,
Brice @ SBF
That's awesome...exactly the kind of thing I was looking for from everyone. I loved reading that, along with your personal insight. We are lucky enough here to not have to worry too much about cold, but we do get our cold days. The biggest trouble is heat, so I'm constantly wondering whether I need the single comb, or if the pea comb is enough. Our Buckeyes do well, so maybe that's sufficient. But we too are looking for meat and eggs, just as long as the birds will work for themselves. I've toyed with the idea of introducing the cornish frame, but my cursory research says that most cornish today are geared toward the show ring. Right now I'm hoping that the Buckeye will carry this load. What breed are you using to get the "foraging" capabilities up to speed? At one point you said, "at them all," which cracked me up, but it also made me think, "what kind of flavor profile is SJ getting?" Well, how did they taste?
Anyone else have a secret recipe they want to share? This is the perfect place to do it...no judgment here!
Best,
Brice @ SBF
First off they were delicious.
I would have quit this whole chicken thing the first year had they not been oh so good.
If awesome is a flavor profile that is the feedback I got this Labor day at the BBQ. "This chicken is awesome!" was said multiple times by unknowing and unsuspecting friends and guests of the grilled, whole, 17 week old Delaware broilers. That they consumed with gusto. I'll just say you don't know what your missing until you eat a true Delaware. Most but not all, of the Delaware birds have difinitively exceptional texture and flavor. It is different in a great way. It is what I imagine all the hufflefuffle "It's the best chicken in the world!" about bresse and sumalter meat is too. Some of the crosses get this meat characteristic too. I had a 13 month old Delaware rooster (All chick killers must die.) with a 7lb carcass in my second year that was just as tender as the 20 week olds I had butcher months earlier.
I hope your Buckeyes are better than mine when it comes to there utilitarian traits. Mine have been lack luster layers and lack meatiness to their frame. With the laying rate I get, the Cornish have been better layers. All in all my pure Cornish have out performed my Buckeyes in everything but growth rate. They do forage well and lay in all but the deepest of winter. They are some of the quietest, friendliest, and least flighty birds of the flock. Not at all a RIR with a different comb type. The Cornish crossed to the Buckeyes have made for a meaty, large framed bird with a pea comb and very small wattles. They've grown slow like the cornish tho.
I gifted 8 birds as a starter flock to my buddy this summer and "DJ" the CornishXBuckeye cockerel shows breeder promise. Ill get some pics of DJ. My buddy is giving him time to see the overall size potential. You got to see the legs on this guy. I gave my buddy two Delaware pullets, one BO pullet, and three half cornish pullets including one of the prototype pullets mentioned in the earlier post a half Chantecler pullet and half NHR pullet. I'm already pumped for collecting hatching egg come next spring. Oh I gave him another cockerel too that is kitchen bound anyday.
I bought hatchery (Ideal) stock Cornish. I had inbreeding issues(legs, dwarfism, and hips) with some of the chicks I got. No issues with an out crossed chick yet. Not show stock for sure but most had open tails, wide backs and hips, long keels, and the hens have laid decent even in winter. Oh and they all have been broody.
If you look at Barthuhner birds.
http://greenfirefarms.com/store/category/chickens/barthuhner/
That is the type of head I'm breeding for.
The foragers are the Kraienkoppe. Truth is last year's drought made a believer out of me when it comes to the Kraienkoppe as a dual purpose animal. Where everything else struggled under the dry conditions the Kraienkoppe were thriving. Everything is there just on a smaller frame. If you can get used to a minature carcass (+1.5lb). Their smaller build lets them fly and they went practically feral. Too bad a coon got my only hen and seven of her half cornish chicks while she was brooding early this summer. I will get more. The game and mediterranian types seem to hold the greatest foraging potential.
I would try homesteading Cubalaya or Catalana if hot weather was my issue.
If awesome is a flavor profile that is the feedback I got this Labor day at the BBQ. "This chicken is awesome!" was said multiple times by unknowing and unsuspecting friends and guests of the grilled, whole, 17 week old Delaware broilers. That they consumed with gusto. I'll just say you don't know what your missing until you eat a true Delaware. Most but not all, of the Delaware birds have difinitively exceptional texture and flavor. It is different in a great way. It is what I imagine all the hufflefuffle "It's the best chicken in the world!" about bresse and sumalter meat is too. Some of the crosses get this meat characteristic too. I had a 13 month old Delaware rooster (All chick killers must die.) with a 7lb carcass in my second year that was just as tender as the 20 week olds I had butcher months earlier.
I hope your Buckeyes are better than mine when it comes to there utilitarian traits. Mine have been lack luster layers and lack meatiness to their frame. With the laying rate I get, the Cornish have been better layers. All in all my pure Cornish have out performed my Buckeyes in everything but growth rate. They do forage well and lay in all but the deepest of winter. They are some of the quietest, friendliest, and least flighty birds of the flock. Not at all a RIR with a different comb type. The Cornish crossed to the Buckeyes have made for a meaty, large framed bird with a pea comb and very small wattles. They've grown slow like the cornish tho.
I gifted 8 birds as a starter flock to my buddy this summer and "DJ" the CornishXBuckeye cockerel shows breeder promise. Ill get some pics of DJ. My buddy is giving him time to see the overall size potential. You got to see the legs on this guy. I gave my buddy two Delaware pullets, one BO pullet, and three half cornish pullets including one of the prototype pullets mentioned in the earlier post a half Chantecler pullet and half NHR pullet. I'm already pumped for collecting hatching egg come next spring. Oh I gave him another cockerel too that is kitchen bound anyday.
I bought hatchery (Ideal) stock Cornish. I had inbreeding issues(legs, dwarfism, and hips) with some of the chicks I got. No issues with an out crossed chick yet. Not show stock for sure but most had open tails, wide backs and hips, long keels, and the hens have laid decent even in winter. Oh and they all have been broody.
If you look at Barthuhner birds.
http://greenfirefarms.com/store/category/chickens/barthuhner/
That is the type of head I'm breeding for.
The foragers are the Kraienkoppe. Truth is last year's drought made a believer out of me when it comes to the Kraienkoppe as a dual purpose animal. Where everything else struggled under the dry conditions the Kraienkoppe were thriving. Everything is there just on a smaller frame. If you can get used to a minature carcass (+1.5lb). Their smaller build lets them fly and they went practically feral. Too bad a coon got my only hen and seven of her half cornish chicks while she was brooding early this summer. I will get more. The game and mediterranian types seem to hold the greatest foraging potential.
I would try homesteading Cubalaya or Catalana if hot weather was my issue.
- Thread starter
- #175
SJ,
I think "awesome" works just fine for flavor. Our Buckeyes have been very good layers, which I understand is not necessarily the norm. We have a couple of strains, one that was created for production, and that may be the difference. They are, hands down, the best roosters we've had in terms of temperament, which is very important on a family farm. We are hoping that the Basque Hens add the same qualities you might expect from the Catalanas: friendly temperament, solid laying, decent carcass and excellent foraging. We're just in the beginning stages, so we will have to see where it goes from here. My brother is currently working on the Indian River cross with some of our German New Hampshires over his Whitemore Farms Delawares. They're all in the incubator now so we can have a side-by-side grow out test. We've considered the dark cornish, but have received mixed reviews on their foraging skills. Sounds like you may have had a different experience.
Best,
Brice
I think "awesome" works just fine for flavor. Our Buckeyes have been very good layers, which I understand is not necessarily the norm. We have a couple of strains, one that was created for production, and that may be the difference. They are, hands down, the best roosters we've had in terms of temperament, which is very important on a family farm. We are hoping that the Basque Hens add the same qualities you might expect from the Catalanas: friendly temperament, solid laying, decent carcass and excellent foraging. We're just in the beginning stages, so we will have to see where it goes from here. My brother is currently working on the Indian River cross with some of our German New Hampshires over his Whitemore Farms Delawares. They're all in the incubator now so we can have a side-by-side grow out test. We've considered the dark cornish, but have received mixed reviews on their foraging skills. Sounds like you may have had a different experience.
Best,
Brice
Cooking kills all I am concerned about. You may have some risk as you handle or dress birds but I have not noticed such as being important.
- Apr 3, 2013
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TO bayocom, SJ, and centrachild et al,......Really interesting stuff about breeding an ideal chicken for Wisconsin and in general...My experience with most Cornish is the low egg production makes them difficult to deal with as utility birds other than as meat crosses....I've had hatchery Dark Cornish from McMurray and Marti's....Both were good foragers, good meat birds...But poor layers...White Cornish are almost impossible to find except the bantams...The Canadian Chantclers actually are ideal cold weather chickens....Also, difficult to find.....A long dead friend of mine crossed New Hampshires with Rose Comb Red Dorkings in the late "50s and '60s...The offspring were beautiful and laid like crazy...Great to eat and matured early....I think he used Hubbard Farms' New Hampshires and Berry's Dorkings...Sure about the Hamps, not so sure about the Dorkings' origins...Of course neither strain exists any longer...It is a great loss and industry tragedy that all the fine production strains of utility breeds were allowed to disappear...All the common breeds had great breeders who devoted their lives to these chickens....And whoof...Gone in less than a generation...Enough from me.. Take care and enjoy life and the creatures we share it with!
- Thread starter
- #178
Bill...that's interesting insight. I've often toyed with the idea of incorporating Cornish into my plans, but I've heard very mixed reviews about their ability to "forage," and pretty clear views that laying is not a strength. It sounds like you've had good experience on the foraging end. We've also noticed that the majority of, if not all, American heritage breeds are really built for cold weather. We're toying with using Dominiques, which seem to have some proclivity for excelling in heat, and our Buckeyes and German New Hampshires have done great. That said, we're still working to develop an ideal fit for our climate... versatile in hot summers and fairly cold winters (low 30's), strong foragers, the ability to be broody without being overly so, good egg laying and a decent frame... Is that too much to ask?
Another aspect of this process that has become increasingly clear here on our farm is timing. This summer we have had to move a majority of our birds out of our orchard to accommodate harvesting. It would have been a far better plan to have processed most of our meat birds in early September rather than waiting for October. Handling juveniles during this time, or just concentrating on laying, would have been a much better idea. Having chickens come and go at the right time is critical, not only for the markets but for the farm.
-Brice
-Brice
Just checking in so that I can follow this thread.
Most discussion here pertains to the genetics of the chickens used. Other threads concentrate on the feed used. I suggest greater emphasis being placed on management of forage and other resources that can reduce need for feeds.
I am trying to promote plant forages that provide good nutrition and insect forages that are able to persist as close to year round as possible. Both issues will force consideration of the lands carrying capacity for free-range chickens just like we might be concerned of grazing livestock and wildlife.
I am trying to promote plant forages that provide good nutrition and insect forages that are able to persist as close to year round as possible. Both issues will force consideration of the lands carrying capacity for free-range chickens just like we might be concerned of grazing livestock and wildlife.
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