Peace

[Oregon Blues]

[[[[........yes ignoring predation is poor care taking but so is ignoring predators.....do something about the coyotes.....]]]]]]


I did do something about the coyotes. I built a fence to keep them out. They are not a problem for my birds.

[[[[[........stagnant runs have little/no grass, a decimated bug population, parasitic hosts etc........Bigger picture= raising confined animals is bad for the planet and us long term......]]]]]

And yet again: why do you insist that all confined birds are living in stagnant runs?

My birds are safely confined, have irrigated pasture, as many bugs as they can catch, trees, water to play in....... Certainly, they are not bad for the planet. My neighbor's chickens have a large covered run, clean and dry, plus a nice big coop. I can't see how they are bad for the planet, either.

However, I will suggest that your idea of killing every hawk and coyote that might kill your free ranging birds instead of confining your birds probably is bad for the planet. Those predators play an important role in the balance of nature.

 

[jamband]

That used to be consenses concerning dolphins and great apes not our immediate kin. The lesser expectations I still have for much of the human population owing what appears to be what I refer to as being "temporally challenged flat-worlders" where they are unable to think about consequences many generations down road and do not see connectivity with systems / populations out of immediate sight.

Its pretty well established that different animals have different brain capacity and functioning.... anthromorphisizing animals doesn't make it so. I dont think saying we have higher functioning brains than chickens is mean or not seeing connectivity.

Humans are clearly the most out of touch species.... I view things from a whole system design view where everything from microbes in soil to wild birds are part of a living, breathing system. This does not mean all animals have the capacity to feel in same way.

 

[jamband]

My birds are safely confined, have irrigated pasture, as many bugs as they can catch, trees, water to play in....... Certainly, they are not bad for the planet. My neighbor's chickens have a large covered run, clean and dry, plus a nice big coop. I can't see how they are bad for the planet, either.

However, I will suggest that your idea of killing every hawk and coyote that might kill your free ranging birds instead of confining your birds probably is bad for the planet. Those predators play an important role in the balance of nature.

I never said your birds were. Do you not think over crowded chicken runs have manure runoff issues? especially when the floor is clay pan from years of manure?? That is an issue. I assume you manage your 1/2 acre for them fine and they are probably good for the environment. Many people do not and I see on here all the time. I have 45 chickens in a 450 sq ft run, they are fine.....No they are not that area is destroyed and wont grow for years even without chickens. That many chickens need an acre for the soil to handle manure loads.


Secondly please dont ever put words in my mouth like shoot a hawk or coyote. I never ever said shoot one let alone all of them. I advocate for the reintroduction and saving of wolves so making that statement was far stretched on your side. All I said was do something. Get some Guineas, a LGD etc etc etc etc

The thread was based on 24/7 confinement so I am not the one making assumptions.

 

[centrarchid]

Organick,

Your logic concerning free-ranging are not that far from mine. Your question was put to an audience that is skewed heavily towards folks that either have very limited acreage relative to animals they support or do not consider the integrated / extensive approach to animal husbandry. Much of your audience thus lacks the resources to address keeping stock on a green and significantly productive pasture. This is in part enabled because quality of feeds that can be purchased provide all nutritional needs of confined stock.

 

[jamband]

Organick,

Your logic concerning free-ranging are not that far from mine. Your question was put to an audience that is skewed heavily towards folks that either have very limited acreage relative to animals they support or do not consider the integrated / extensive approach to animal husbandry. Much of your audience thus lacks the resources to address keeping stock on a green and significantly productive pasture. This is in part enabled because quality of feeds that can be purchased provide all nutritional needs of confined stock.

exactly!! thats a portion of the issue though......keeping high stock rates is not good. Whether its a 600,000 sq ft hen house on a factory farm or a 1/4 acre lot in town with 35 birds its not good. There are better ways no matter how much land you have......I have posted articles on them here before. if your land cant handle your manure than its off balance....