Peafowl 201: Further Genetics- Colors, Patterns, and More

[Peafowlssssssss]

I have sent an Email to Josh asking him about this, he said yes, a split white bird will pass the gene to 50% of his offspring, its also the same for other patterns and colors, its great to know this, but now, i wish i didn't sell the chicks from my bronze pen last year

 

[Dany12]

So the real Pied is a bird who has 2 genes pied .... so a dark pied ?

 

[Kedreeva]

So the real Pied is a bird who has 2 genes pied .... so a dark pied ?

A dark pied bird is a pied bird (2 copies of gene) that displays no white (or just white on the throat and flight feathers). It's different from a split pied bird, which is a bird with only 1 copy of the gene (ie, only 1 parent was pied).

Personally I'd like to know more about the pied genes in general. I was recently informed that in pied horses, the genes display in 1 of three patterns. In ball pythons, you have three "expressions" of pattern (high white, mid white, and low white expressions). If this is the case across pied genes/species, there may be some pattern in pied peafowl that we just haven't bothered to document yet, including Dark Pied simply being an alternate expression of pied, giving us the same "three expression types" as ball pythons- loud pied (high white), pied (mid white), and dark pied (low white).

In addition, I was originally told that there's no predicting the way the white will display on the feathers (implying that the pattern is completely random). However, I have made a habit of purchasing pied hens with a white "saddle" over their wings, and outside of the one loud pied and the dark pied babies they have thrown, the same white saddle coloration has shown up in all their pied offspring, suggesting the particular white pattern they have may be hereditary.

So, I think we have a lot to explore and learn when it comes to pied genetics.

 

[KsKingBee]

A dark pied bird is a pied bird (2 copies of gene) that displays no white (or just white on the throat and flight feathers). It's different from a split pied bird, which is a bird with only 1 copy of the gene (ie, only 1 parent was pied).

Personally I'd like to know more about the pied genes in general. I was recently informed that in pied horses, the genes display in 1 of three patterns. In ball pythons, you have three "expressions" of pattern (high white, mid white, and low white expressions). If this is the case across pied genes/species, there may be some pattern in pied peafowl that we just haven't bothered to document yet, including Dark Pied simply being an alternate expression of pied, giving us the same "three expression types" as ball pythons- loud pied (high white), pied (mid white), and dark pied (low white).

In addition, I was originally told that there's no predicting the way the white will display on the feathers (implying that the pattern is completely random). However, I have made a habit of purchasing pied hens with a white "saddle" over their wings, and outside of the one loud pied and the dark pied babies they have thrown, the same white saddle coloration has shown up in all their pied offspring, suggesting the particular white pattern they have may be hereditary.

So, I think we have a lot to explore and learn when it comes to pied genetics.

Looks like part of your post did not come through!

So when we see a bird with white on its throat and flights we assume it is split to either Pied or White and hat assumption is correct. However is the ONLY way to assume it is dark Pied is to KNOW the parents?

 

[Kedreeva]

Looks like part of your post did not come through!

So when we see a bird with white on its throat and flights we assume it is split to either Pied or White and hat assumption is correct. However is the ONLY way to assume it is dark Pied is to KNOW the parents?

Nope, all of my post is there...?

If you see a bird with white flights and white throat, you can assume that it has at least 1 copy of one of the leucistic genes (white or pied, maybe white-eye? I'm not sure if white-eye is a leucistic gene, but I suspect that it is, and is just a certain pattern of expression... don't quote me on that XD I plain old don't know enough about white-eye genetics right now). So yes, you can assume split if you see those things. I suppose if you were to breed a dark pied to a blue, all the kids should come out looking split, rather than 50/50 blue and blue split?

 

[Dany12]

It is customary to say that the pattern Pied is represented by two genes ... a white W and one Pied P . On another side they use to say that Pied is an allele of the gene white.
So how can there be two genes W and P for this allele?
Only one gene as the white will be enough.
For me pied gene would be Wp!

 

[KsKingBee]

Nope, all of my post is there...?

If you see a bird with white flights and white throat, you can assume that it has at least 1 copy of one of the leucistic genes (white or pied, maybe white-eye? I'm not sure if white-eye is a leucistic gene, but I suspect that it is, and is just a certain pattern of expression... don't quote me on that XD I plain old don't know enough about white-eye genetics right now). So yes, you can assume split if you see those things. I suppose if you were to breed a dark pied to a blue, all the kids should come out looking split, rather than 50/50 blue and blue split?

I guess my computer was acting up, only one sentence was showing on your post, but when I replied there were three paragraphs. ???

My question wasn't really about splits, that is simple enough, I was wondering about how to tell a dark Pied phenotypically when you don't know the parentage.

 

[Kedreeva]

It is customary to say that the pattern Pied is represented by two genes ... a white W and one Pied P . On another side they use to say that Pied is an allele of the gene white.
So how can there be two genes W and P for this allele?
Only one gene as the white will be enough.
For me pied gene would be Wp!

Actually, with the consideration of silver pied birds (produced from some kind of interaction between the white, pied, and silver pied genes), it may not be true that pied and white are true alleles (I'm unable to edit the original post anymore, which is why it still says they are alleles). Instead, the white genes may be considered dominant over the pied genes (for example, if somehow a bird ended up with 2 copies of white and 2 copies of pied, it would be a white bird phenotypically speaking) or else there may be a different interaction going on here.

Something useful to know for these considerations (something I used to know and have since forgotten) what patterns are produced from breeding white to pied?

My question wasn't really about splits, that is simple enough, I was wondering about how to tell a dark Pied phenotypically when you don't know the parentage.

I don't think there's a way to tell a dark pied by its phenotype, since they look just like blue split white or pied. In that case, you would need to know the parentage.

You MIGHT be able to prove out a dark pied if you bred it to a plain blue, and got all babies that looked blue split white/pied, rather than 50/50 blue and blue split... but again, there's no way to really prove that's not just luck, the best you could say there would be that you're "pretty sure". Like, my dark pied out of silver pied parents looks blue split white/pied. If I didn't know his parents, that would be the best I could say about him without breeding.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

You could mate the dark pied bird with a white bird, if all their chicks were pieds then yes its a dark pied. You will need to hatch many chicks to be sure.

 

[Kedreeva]

You could mate the dark pied bird with a white bird, if all their chicks were pieds then yes its a dark pied. You will need to hatch many chicks to be sure.

Is there no possibility for a dark pied out of a mating between a pied and a white bird?