Peafowl 201: Further Genetics- Colors, Patterns, and More

[Peafowlssssssss]

Okay so like I said earlier, I never really learned much about the w/e gene. What's going on with it, genetically, if you know?

As for the hen, I'm not really sure what is going on with her. I bought her three or four years back, from someone at a swap. She was in a big sale cage with blues, blue splits (probably more like dark pieds, looking back), pieds, and a couple of whites. I asked about her, because she was the ONLY visual w/e in the cage, and they didn't even know what the term white-eye meant. I explained it, and they said none of their males had white eyes, and none of their females had the frosted look. Of course, someone could have been carrying just one copy, but no way to tell. They showed me pictures on their phone of the parents, looked like a blue split and a pied. Suppose it's possible that her dad was a dark silver pied? But seems unlikely, silver pied is kind of unknown in these parts- in the 12 years I've been perusing nearby peafowl stock for sale, I've only ever seen 2, and one of them was just over the border in the next state.

As for the w/e chicks, I have no idea if they are carrying just one gene, but the ones who are carrying 2, they're very clearly lighter and frosty looking.

One of my dark pieds:

You can see the black stripes on his wings

Versus one of my white-eye chicks:



The flash hasn't washed out anything on that bird. The striping is super pale, almost silvery, it's very pretty.

I will see if I can grab a photo of the two next to each other, I actually still have both of them.

I do have a photo of the one pied w/e that hatched:


Again, really light coloration compared to the other pieds, but I sold that one before it was even a week old to someone that came by to get some older ones, so I don't have any later photos. Should have kept it, I'm sure it would have been really beautiful.

As for Dad, if he has 2 copies of the W/E gene, shouldn't he be WE as well? He has never had a white eye in any of his trains, and all his feathers are the normal, vibrant color, no "dusting" or "frosty" look to them at all. Here's a pic of him (we have to clip his train short because he was injured when he was young and only uses 1 leg to walk now):


I mean I know he has the W/E genes, because of his parentage, but he doesn't show any of it, so I assumed maybe he only had 1 copy. Also, he's 5 years old, so if anything was going to appear I would think it would have by now.

I do remember this nice peacock for sure. First of all, are you100% sure that his parents were both silver pieds? He could still be dark pied if one parent was pied and the other is silver pied, so he will be carrying only single w/e gene in this case, and birds carrying single w/e gene will not necessarily show this in their trains.

W/e gene seems to be the most complicated gene, especially when talking about creating silver pied birds, and many breeders have different opinions on this, but i believe when mating a silver pied bird with a w/e bird there is a chance to get some silver pieds.

As for your chicks, the first chick is india blue, but second one looks purple that's why he/she is lighter, but of course it could still be carrying the white eye gene, do you know if your male is split to purple? Are any of the hens are purple?

Do you have more images for the third chick? Its purple too, and it look white eye, just want to make sure its a pied too, because some white eye chicks will have many white on their wings when they hatched and would look like pied sometimes but they are just w/e.

Like this guy:

 

[Kedreeva]

Kedreeva,
The two that I had from you that almost hatched both looked white!

I didn't see any dark spots at all, but very hard to tell I know. Might have had light colored spots I didn't see. But they looked white.

The silver pieds I've hatched here look white when they are born (let me tell you, I was STOKED when I looked in the incubator during my first hatch this year and thought I had a white bird, but after it fluffed up and I pulled it out, I realized it had ONE off-color feather. One. And by the time it was three weeks, it had several patches of tannish coloring where color spots were developing). They have very, very soft/pale tan patches (like, the same or lighter than the flight feathers of a blackshoulder bird) on them that darken up as the bird ages. So they were both probably silver pieds!

Here are the SP ones I've had hatch:

I do remember this nice peacock for sure. First of all, are you100% sure that his parents were both silver pieds? He could still be dark pied if one parent was pied and the other is silver pied, so he will be carrying only single w/e gene in this case, and birds carrying single w/e gene will not necessarily show this in their trains.

W/e gene seems to be the most complicated gene, especially when talking about creating silver pied birds, and many breeders have different opinions on this, but i believe when mating a silver pied bird with a w/e bird there is a chance to get some silver pieds.

As for your chicks, the first chick is india blue, but second one looks purple that's why he/she is lighter, but of course it could still be carrying the white eye gene, do you know if your male is split to purple? Are any of the hens are purple?

Do you have more images for the third chick? Its purple too, and it look white eye, just want to make sure its a pied too, because some white eye chicks will have many white on their wings when they hatched and would look like pied sometimes but they are just w/e.

Like this guy:

Unless I was lied to by the seller and shown the wrong photographs, I'm sure that Blu's parents were both silver pied. His sibling, Osiris, never had much white on her either, but I didn't get a chance to breed her:


As far as I'm aware, Blu is not split to purple. I have purple hens NOW, but I did not have them when these eggs were laid. There was a very young cameo(? she was sold to a friend of mine as purple but next to the purples I got recently she doesn't look like them at all) pied in the pen, but I'm fairly certain she isn't laying yet as she's only just over a year old. I only had 3 hens laying, and my other three are all 3+ years old so one of them would have had to not lay at all for Penny to be the culprit. The cameo (Penny) is on the left here (one of my pied blues on the right):



here she is next to the purples I picked up recently (penny at the back, nova at the front left is purple pied, eclipse at front right is purple bs pied):

(Although now I'm wondering if maybe she IS purple, and is purple w/e?)


As for the third chick I have two other photos, but it was definitely pied, I can tell that much

:




Here's a photo from @Dustystrail of the set of chicks she hatched from me:

 

[thndrdancr]

You sold Goggles, didn't you? Loved his markings. Love all your chicks colorings, so many different variations! Beautiful! Sorry to interrupt your discussion. Carry on.

 

[Kedreeva]

You sold Goggles, didn't you? Loved his markings. Love all your chicks colorings, so many different variations! Beautiful! Sorry to interrupt your discussion. Carry on.

I DID sell goggles, but you know, all my pied chicks have come out with those freaking eyebrows?? And the darker-colored pieds have all had black rings around their eyes, it was so funny XD Certainly a grab-bag of patterns (and possibly colors??) coming out of my pen...

Goggles for you:






By the way @q8peafowl that's the other "w/e" kid that I got on the left, in April, when only my two oldest birds, one of my pieds and my w/e, were laying.
Different pic, same bird:

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

The silver pieds I've hatched here look white when they are born (let me tell you, I was STOKED when I looked in the incubator during my first hatch this year and thought I had a white bird, but after it fluffed up and I pulled it out, I realized it had ONE off-color feather. One. And by the time it was three weeks, it had several patches of tannish coloring where color spots were developing). They have very, very soft/pale tan patches (like, the same or lighter than the flight feathers of a blackshoulder bird) on them that darken up as the bird ages. So they were both probably silver pieds!

Here are the SP ones I've had hatch:





Unless I was lied to by the seller and shown the wrong photographs, I'm sure that Blu's parents were both silver pied. His sibling, Osiris, never had much white on her either, but I didn't get a chance to breed her:


As far as I'm aware, Blu is not split to purple. I have purple hens NOW, but I did not have them when these eggs were laid. There was a very young cameo(? she was sold to a friend of mine as purple but next to the purples I got recently she doesn't look like them at all) pied in the pen, but I'm fairly certain she isn't laying yet as she's only just over a year old. I only had 3 hens laying, and my other three are all 3+ years old so one of them would have had to not lay at all for Penny to be the culprit. The cameo (Penny) is on the left here (one of my pied blues on the right):



here she is next to the purples I picked up recently (penny at the back, nova at the front left is purple pied, eclipse at front right is purple bs pied):

(Although now I'm wondering if maybe she IS purple, and is purple w/e?)


As for the third chick I have two other photos, but it was definitely pied, I can tell that much

:




Here's a photo from @Dustystrail of the set of chicks she hatched from me:

I would expect a full white eyes on his train if both parents are silver pieds, lets see what others think, but all the dark pied i have seen out from silver pied birds has full white eyes on their trains.

Whether you had purple hens at that time or not you can't hatch purple chicks without a purple male or split purple male, but i was asking about the hens colors cause I saw many purple chicks what would make me think there is a purple hen.

Penny looks cameo pied w/e to me.

That's chick is definitely a pied, and last chick you posted next to the pied chick also looks purple, it seems that your male split purple, or you couldn't get purple chicks from him.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

This brown chick on the left is also from this male, right? It looks whether cameo or purple.

 

[Kedreeva]

I would expect a full white eyes on his train if both parents are silver pieds, lets see what others think, but all the dark pied i have seen out from silver pied birds has full white eyes on their trains.

Whether you had purple hens at that time or not you can't hatch purple chicks without a purple male or split purple male, but i was asking about the hens colors cause I saw many purple chicks what would make me think there is a purple hen.

Penny looks cameo pied w/e to me.

That's chick is definitely a pied, and last chick you posted next to the pied chick also looks purple, it seems that your male split purple, or you couldn't get purple chicks from him.

Well, I've only gotten the two (three, if you count the light-colored pied one) with that light coloration.

Here is the chick I first posted, a few weeks after that baby photo (not the one with the kicked out leg) next to a blue:


and between a blue and one of the really pale, white ones... I'm actually wondering if it's a silver pied at all now:


And the right side chick, closer, next to the pale chick:

If I showed you just the chick on the right hand side without any parental genetics information, what would you say it was?

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

Well, I've only gotten the two (three, if you count the light-colored pied one) with that light coloration.

Here is the chick I first posted, a few weeks after that baby photo (not the one with the kicked out leg) next to a blue:


and between a blue and one of the really pale, white ones... I'm actually wondering if it's a silver pied at all now:


And the right side chick, closer, next to the pale chick:

If I showed you just the chick on the right hand side without any parental genetics information, what would you say it was?

Yeah, this brown chick looks purple or cameo, the other one of course not white, its already showing some colors, i would say pied or silver pied from sex-linked colors, whether cameo or purple.

Are they all the same age? Some sex linked colors chicks grow slowly.

 

[Kedreeva]

Yeah, this brown chick looks purple or cameo, the other one of course not white, its already showing some colors, i would say pied or silver pied from sex-linked colors, whether cameo or purple.

Are they all the same age? Some sex linked colors chicks grow slowly.

Yep, they are all the same hatch, the middle chick is noticeably smaller in person as well.

Well, I'm so happy my birds have got crazy genetics I didn't know about! I'm going to be keeping these three (and a fourth dark pied) for a while yet, so I'll take some photos in a few months when they have closer to adult colors and I can tell genders. If the purple/cameo/whatever chick(s) turn out to be boys, there's something REAL fishy going on genetically here...

I'm wondering if Penny (the cameo pied possibly w/e hen) really did lay some eggs. It would be strange but I guess not unheard of. The strangest thing about her is that I know the guy I got her from, and I know his birds. And he doesn't own cameo birds. She came out of his purple pen. I was unable to make the swap to pick her up, so my friend was the one who grabbed her for me.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

Yep, they are all the same hatch, the middle chick is noticeably smaller in person as well.

Well, I'm so happy my birds have got crazy genetics I didn't know about! I'm going to be keeping these three (and a fourth dark pied) for a while yet, so I'll take some photos in a few months when they have closer to adult colors and I can tell genders. If the purple/cameo/whatever chick(s) turn out to be boys, there's something REAL fishy going on genetically here...

I'm wondering if Penny (the cameo pied possibly w/e hen) really did lay some eggs. It would be strange but I guess not unheard of. The strangest thing about her is that I know the guy I got her from, and I know his birds. And he doesn't own cameo birds. She came out of his purple pen. I was unable to make the swap to pick her up, so my friend was the one who grabbed her for me.

She could lay some eggs, heard about many yearling laying eggs, also Penny looks like an adult hen in the picture, i wouldn't be surprised if she laid some eggs. Purple could produce cameo, isn't cameo came from purple at first? If the chicks turned out to be males then Penny is their mother.


But i would guess a hen on the small chick