Peafowl Genetics for Dummies (in other words us)

[Rosa moschata]

Yoda, if the father was visually IB, he could be split purple and opal as one theory goes. The mother could be purple split opal. Both parents could be offspring from purple male on opal hen. The new Taupe males could then have easily received a purple and an opal from both parents, thus making it a colour combination. To produce a taupe hen (using better odds), you could breed a male split opal and purple to an opal hen.

If Taupe is Purple-Opal as you're supposing, another test would be to breed a Purple male to a Taupe female. If you get any Purple sons, you know that Taupe is Purple combined with something -- because in order for a son to show Purple, he must get one copy of that gene from Mom. Since hens can't be split to Purple, that nixes the idea that maybe she carried it but didn't show it.

If Taupe is a completely distinct separate single mutation (i.e. not the result of something combined with Purple), then all the Purple offspring from my proposed test-mating would be hens, and all the sons would be IB split to Taupe and Purple.

 

[connerhills]

Rosa, I will attempt to express what I think, but I can not do it in the words you use and I appreciate someone who is at your high level of understanding how It is suppose to be .. I am almost positive that the peacock world will not change how Peafowl are identified and will never be using the tweety bird color and pattern methods. What I call the hen , she is a blue phenotype that came from a Bronze male and a Silverpied hen and at some point I will get a pied or Silverpied or bronze or blue splits or possible a number of things.. I think last years I got a progressive Bronze pied, now if it is do I use it or not?? Can this be a problem gene ? I am surprised that Jay L. has not gave us his thought on his.. Jays Bronze came from Doug McNutt the male and its mother . Augeredin, Yes I think so., That is kind of like it is currently to me,, I see so many that are making or calling a white eye bird a silver pied and I cant always agree and let it go as most of the time you have to hear all of the 3 bird experts tell you where you wrong at (present thread members greatly appreciated) but I spent to many years in the UPA rearranging what the birds are now being called , no more emeralds and no more oaten and red buffs and learning how to from people like Legg ,Hibler,, McNutt, Mike Johns, and a host of others over the years. I will stay tuned.. connerhills

 

[Rosa moschata]

http://connerhills.com/silver_pied_peafowl.html

I went to your page and saw something you call "split to Silver Pied". If I was to be asked what that male was, I'd say IB Pied. It doesn't appear that he has even one copy of White Eye, being as the only eyes in his train that are white are within the Pied markings. The other male on the page, however, does show white centers to his colored ocelli, showing he is at least Single Factor (but probably Double Factor) White Eye. I'd be curious to see offspring from the first male, since it seems that even if he's set up with Silver Pied hens, his offspring would be only Single Factor White Eye -- meaning his sons would still have some ocelli that aren't white. Is that the case? If so, how are those offspring still called "Silver Pied"?

 

[connerhills]

Rosa, The male in the photo I bought in Tenn. a number of years ago as what I stated ( as a 6 mo or so age ) I breed him to silver pied and did not produce a Silver pied best to my recall. Only some really good loud pied males. The bird was sold and is now in Fl. somewhere. All of his offspring were easy to sell and I do not have any. The second bird was the first silverpied that I owned and came from N.C. with some hens, first 12 egg set produced 10 silver pied and all were females. I breed with him for a few yrs and he produce one purple silver pied female and she went blind and I gave her away to someone that would treat her well and stop me from killing her. I don't think I called the offspring silver pied.. ?? George

 

[Rosa moschata]

Ah, then that makes sense -- and it underscores my desire to be clear with terms. If you bought that bird as "split to Silver Pied" then you were deceived, because if he had one "Silver Pied" parent, he'd have at least one copy of the White Eye gene -- since being Silver Pied phenotype requires two copies of the White Eye gene. But based on the picture, he didn't. At best, his "Silver Pied" parent had one copy of White Eye, but did not pass it on to him (instead passing on the "normal" version of that gene).

But that makes me question if there is a standard genotype for what people are calling "Silver Pied". I guess people will call them whatever they can get away with, and as long as the bird is mostly white, with at least some (but perhaps not all) white ocelli, and (I suppose) a silver dusting on the saddle, then most people won't question the "Silver Pied" name. But when it comes to controlled breeding, it would be much better if buyers knew genotypes responsible for phenotypes, hence my call for standardization. But, if that's something that people don't want to change, then I guess the confusion will continue.

Meanwhile, take a look at breeder websites explaining various mutations of "tweety bird" species and you'll see how breeders of other species are seemingly capable of genetic clarity. The result of maintaining organized, standard definitions of genotypes and phenotypes is that genetic calculators can be put together easily, and breeders freely dispense information about what mutations are put together to come up with various combinations. Keeping things confusing prevents something like this from being put together for peafowl, and the same "what do I get if I cross this with that?" or "how do I breed a....." questions will continue.




http://www.cockatiel.org/genetics/

http://www.africanlovebirdsociety.com/genetics/

http://feathert.com/greencheekgenetics.html

http://www.budgieplace.com/colors.html

 

[Arbor]

If Taupe is Purple-Opal as you're supposing, another test would be to breed a Purple male to a Taupe female. If you get any Purple sons, you know that Taupe is Purple combined with something -- because in order for a son to show Purple, he must get one copy of that gene from Mom. Since hens can't be split to Purple, that nixes the idea that maybe she carried it but didn't show it.

If Taupe is a completely distinct separate single mutation (i.e. not the result of something combined with Purple), then all the Purple offspring from my proposed test-mating would be hens, and all the sons would be IB split to Taupe and Purple.

Since a purple hen was involved in the first breeding, purple is somehow involved in the mutation, as only males were produced. I only suggested the taupe male on opal hen so the opal factor could be proved. This way, if it is in fact opal involved, other breeders could proliferate the number of hens produced by this method. If you really want to get creative, use an opal blackshoulder silver pied hen

 

[Rosa moschata]

Arbor, I'm hoping that while you test your ideas about Taupe, you have another pen or two putting together something new. I'm itching to see a Purple-Midnight or a Bronze-Midnight.

http://clnjr.com/creating_new_peafowl_colors.html

 

[Arbor]

Arbor, I'm hoping that while you test your ideas about Taupe, you have another pen or two putting together something new. I'm itching to see a Purple-Midnight or a Bronze-Midnight.

http://clnjr.com/creating_new_peafowl_colors.html

I myself don't have taupe, haven't seen it as a worthwhile investment on my part (be hard for me to sell even one up here for half of what I'd need to buy a single taupe). However, I have 4 pairs of combos that are coming 2 this year. all four males have superb feathering for their age, so I am hoping for at least a few fertile eggs

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Rosa, I have purple,bronze,and midnight. I believe Clifton has bred the midnight-bronze, or purple and bronze and if I remember right Sid from Texas Peafowl bought them cause Clifton couldn't sell them as something new? I know I spoke to Sid about this,but not sure what colors were used but the new color Hazel has appeared on several larger breeders websites as a new colorand I'm sure Clifton was breeding colors you mentioned above.

 

[AugeredIn]

My understanding: Indigo = purple bronze
Hazel = midnight bronze (Has a midnight type neck coloring with a bronze type tail coloration)
Obviously I have seen the one in person. It was different but not much so. Does not make me want one badly. The pretty spalding peach and adult taupe males are very nice in person.