Pellet vs Free Range/Foraging

[Shewstock]

I'm currently trying to boost my flock's health after a bout of problems.

They currently get All Flock pellets with oyster shell on the side. I rarely give treats (maybe, like, 2x or 3x in the summer to combat heat - that's it). Fresh water daily. Spot clean coop daily, full clean weekly.

So I've been reading a lot about diet. I'm seeing some conflicting info. Of course balanced commercial feed is good, but what about free ranging/foraging? Is that overall detrimental to their health since it isn't balanced commercial feed?

I was thinking about starting a fodder system, but don't want to detract from a balanced diet. I also allow my birds to forage in the pasture daily, and I'm wondering if that's diluting their nutrient intake.

It seems counterintuitive to think that free ranging could be bad for them, but I've read several blogs/articles and a lot of BYC posts suggesting that anything other than pellets (i.e. letting them free range/forage) is bad for them. It's been suggested to me that I should stop letting them consume anything other than pellets, and I'm wondering if that might be better given that these birds are essentially laying machines...

Thoughts?

There were no commercial feeds way back in the day. Foraging is by far better than commercial feed. Grt grandfather fed nothing but corn mash and fresh water (the metal water container had the prettiest green grassy looking algae growing on the sides but the water was fresh). The chickens foraged and they'd get the leftover leftovers. No electrolytes, no rooster booster. In summer he'd drop a watermelon in the yard. No matter how it broke open, they managed to devour the whole thing faster than we kids ate ours! So, do what you do when food shopping. Grab it, toss it and don't over think it. The biggest enemy (besides predators) is coccidiosis! Now THAT should be your worry! Best of luck and God's blessings to you, yours and your feathered kids.

 

[saysfaa]

I started this thread. I have a small farm. My land can easily support my goats, except for copper and selenium which must be supplemented. I imagine my chickens could also survive fine, but I can't really let them free range 24/7 because there is a HEAVY predator load here in the woods.

All I was trying to find out is if I'm harming my flock inadvertently by letting them forage, since many, many folks report that not feeding solely balanced commercial feed is contributing to the problems and losses my flock is experiencing. I don't even care about egg production at the moment. I just want my chickens and ducks to stop dying.

Apologies for the swerves in your thread.
Thank you for your patience through them.

I wish I had a better answer to your question.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

There were no commercial feeds way back in the day. Foraging is by far better than commercial feed. Grt grandfather fed nothing but corn mash and fresh water (the metal water container had the prettiest green grassy looking algae growing on the sides but the water was fresh). The chickens foraged and they'd get the leftover leftovers. No electrolytes, no rooster booster. In summer he'd drop a watermelon in the yard. No matter how it broke open, they managed to devour the whole thing faster than we kids ate ours! So, do what you do when food shopping. Grab it, toss it and don't over think it. The biggest enemy (besides predators) is coccidiosis! Now THAT should be your worry! Best of luck and God's blessings to you, yours and your feathered kids.

which is fine if you want scrawny, slow growing, poorly producing, birds with greater vulnerability to coccidosis, worms, and a host of other ills, and you happen to be keeping your flock on a decent peice of land while dirt farming at a number of efforts, generally poorly.

Most modern owners, with modern birds, in first world countries expect more of their poultry, while at the same time no longer engaging in the sort of systems which are and were conducive to raising a few birds with limited direct human support. As a consequence, we are more reliant on commercial feeds as an alternative means of providing for their dietary needs. HOW reliant depends on the breeds, the ages, the size of the flock, the availability of forage, the quality of the forage, and a host of other factors. Including, significantly, the amount of productive use you want out of your birds.

Lower your expectations, and you can certainly lower your inputs.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I started this thread. I have a small farm. My land can easily support my goats, except for copper and selenium which must be supplemented. I imagine my chickens could also survive fine, but I can't really let them free range 24/7 because there is a HEAVY predator load here in the woods.

All I was trying to find out is if I'm harming my flock inadvertently by letting them forage, since many, many folks report that not feeding solely balanced commercial feed is contributing to the problems and losses my flock is experiencing. I don't even care about egg production at the moment. I just want my chickens and ducks to stop dying.

Nothing wrong witht he way you feed your birds. You provide a complete feed at all times which exceeds minimum needs, you keep them in fresh water, you keep oyster shell for your laying bird's additional calcium needs, you keep treats to a minimum, and your working farm isn't a monoculture.

Whatever the recent maladies your flock has suffered, it likely isn't caused by diet.

The most common cause of feed-related issues here on BYC is too many "treats", generally high fat treats. and closely following, feeding a minimal value feed formulation together with a large amount of (treats) in the form of "scratch", corn, oats or a similar low value grain in relatively large quantity. Or so it seems to me, based on recollections of frequency of various posts. I could have the ratios wrong.

 

[Shewstock]

which is fine if you want scrawny, slow growing, poorly producing, birds with greater vulnerability to coccidosis, worms, and a host of other ills, and you happen to be keeping your flock on a decent peice of land while dirt farming at a number of efforts, generally poorly.

Most modern owners, with modern birds, in first world countries expect more of their poultry, while at the same time no longer engaging in the sort of systems which are and were conducive to raising a few birds with limited direct human support. As a consequence, we are more reliant on commercial feeds as an alternative means of providing for their dietary needs. HOW reliant depends on the breeds, the ages, the size of the flock, the availability of forage, the quality of the forage, and a host of other factors. Including, significantly, the amount of productive use you want out of your birds.

Lower your expectations, and you can certainly lower your inputs.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

LOL! What a nice way of saying I can go eat ... grt grandaddy had awards for his "scrawny, ill bred, ill fed chickens. It was his chickens that fed the town during the Depression. He lost several of his fingers in an accident. Guess which one he'd be showing you. That's ok. Take a BC and you'll feel right as rain tomorrow.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

LOL! What a nice way of saying I can go eat ... grt grandaddy had awards for his "scrawny, ill bred, ill fed chickens. It was his chickens that fed the town during the Depression. He lost several of his fingers in an accident. Guess which one he'd be showing you. That's ok. Take a BC and you'll feel right as rain tomorrow.

...and by the standards of today, the award winning chickens of last century are rejects.

RIR, 1932. and they were "modern" breeds at the time, outperforming most of their contemporaries.

Laying, on average at 7 months, and about 180 eggs per year, with an average 5.5# weight. RIR Hens now average 6.5# at maturity, lay around 260 eggs per year, and start laying a few weeks earlier.

How about this, from 1918? (p29)

 

[3KillerBs]

Grt grandfather fed nothing but corn mash and fresh water

You might find it interesting to look at this century-old book which applied the then-latest poultry science to help farmers achieve a profitable 100 eggs per hen per year -- from LEGHORNS!!!!!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/poultry-for-the-farm-and-home.1443907/

The worst layer in my flock last year -- a Light Brahma -- did better than that. By modern standards she's a lousy layer, giving me about 3 eggs per week with a rather lengthy molt.

My good layers by modern standards, Blue Australorps, laid about 6 days out of 7.

My modern layer breed, a California White, laid 28 days out of 30 her first year and still lays 5 or 6 days out of 7 in her second year.

Today's chickens aren't great-grandfather's birds.

 

[Iluveggers]

Spice loves to forage. It was really obvious from very early. She never stops hunting. She never stops hustling. She occasionally, rarely, stands still.

Just wondering what breed Spice is.

 

[Perris]

well, two points:

1) you absolutely CAN choose a commercial mix purpose built for a specific use, i.e. layer feed. And, with the exception of the reduced total calcium (for which there is good nutritional reason), the nutritional offering in the typical "all flock" is as good or better than a similarly branded and market positioned "layer" formulation - worst case is that some of the "excess" in the All Flock is excreted w/o use, but more often, the All Flock - while better - is still somewhat less than the "perfect" diet for that particular bird at that particular moment in its life.

2) birds which forage ARE limited to whatever's available. If its not present in the environment, they can't obtain it. If it is present in the environment, they have to obtain it in the form available - for good or ill. Often, that's ill - particularly if an excess of high fat sources for the needed nutrition are the only (or preferred) source. High fat seeds like sunflower are a good example of this - a chicken getting most of its Met and Lys from sunflower seeds is also ingesting a lot of fat, which brings concerns of its own.

Finally and as reminder, I do both. I provide my birds a commercial feed (one, in fact, that I know is bad for some of them - excess calcium for my roos), and I allow my birds to free range acres at their liesure. They are almost never locked up. Its educated risk taking - i can't know the nutritional value of my acres at any given moment, so I provide a base which meets their minimums (and a bit more), and allow them to forage in addition/as alternative. I put more than minimal effort in ensuring that the pasture is varied in content during every season (to the extent we have seasons here) - but I don't pretend that square footage alone ensures a diet on which they can thrive - particularly as I knwo that the optimal levels of Met - the first and most critical Amino Acid for a chicken - is higher than can be obtained from vegetable sources found in nature, and the availability of animal or insect protein sources in my pasture is largely beyond my control.

I'm not against Commercial Feed. I'm not against Foraging per se. I am for understanding the limitations of whatever you do choose to do. One of the costs of free ranging/foraging is that you simply can't know. Best guess, and some intelligent assumptions based on observation of their forage area is close as it gets, while the likelihood of a bird ever reaching its potential is reduced (how greatly being a factor of breed and forage both - the more we humans have tinkered with the line, the greater its dietary requirements are likely to be to reach its full potential).

Re: 1, you missed the point. I didn't say their needs vary by type of bird, e.g. layer. I said

individual birds will metabolize different elements of their diet differently

So, picking up your example, layer feed is formulated for the average layer. My point was that a specific layer will metabolize their food differently from another specific layer.

 

[raingarden]

...and by the standards of today, the award winning chickens of last century are rejects.

OK, I hearby declare that tough, scrawny little quasi-feral chickens that lay thirty small eggs per year are a delicacy that common folk cannot afford. You know, one of the primary drivers of price is rarity.
They really do taste pretty good if you know how to fix them.