Pennsylvania!! Unite!!

Pics
Date sort Score sort
wingstone said:
I have plans to set up for rabbits this spring, nothing large scale, just enough for us and family and maybe sell a few...

well hubby surprised me today with plans of his own,,,,,this man wants to raise fish to eat, I better start some research, is this even a possibility, he insist it is............I never even had a goldfish let alone big fish.....but he does have a point, we eat fish atleast twice a week.... can you tell,,,I think he is nuts..
th.gif
Click to expand...

It's not as crazy as it sounds. You'll have to pick your species carefully. Up here in PA, the usual suspects (Tilapia) cannot overwinter, so you're already talking slower growing species.

And if you think keeping Chickens is infrastructure intensive, fishkeeping on an edible scale can be truly daunting if you're not blessed with lots of land for lots of pond. Either you dig/doze a pond into place and keep population at a level that can be reasonably sustained by your body of water, or you start spending...

...on filters, aeration, netting (to keep away birds), algae control... The costs can be astronomic and sometimes it seems like they never end! Chickens you can set to forage. Fish? If you don't provide it, or it doesn't drop into the water, they don't eat.

Heck, even STOCK can cost more than chickens. I paid $2.50 per head for the fish because I wasn't buying in hatchery bulk sizes. Said sizes being 1000+ head. Makes the 25 chick minimum seem reasonable.

I did a quick stint with a medium-ish aquaponics setup. Channel Catfish in an above ground pool, with plans to run it through medium for greens and some other edibles. In the end, algae, power failures, and finally several visits from passing Herons put me out of business before I ever really got rolling.

Now I don't want to discourage you, it's a GREAT idea if you have the space or money to pull it off. But here in the cold northeast, it's not a simple or cheap matter for the typical homestead, and it's IMHO a LOT more work than our birds.

Now if you're not scared off yet, try some of the sites below. And RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH.

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/
http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/
http://aquaponics.net.au/forum/
 
fisherlady said:
Farming catfish is not uncommon, biggest factor may be weather... I don't know how they handle frozen ponds when fish farming on a commercial level. Would be pretty interesting though.

We had walleye last night... love catching our own fish to eat.
Click to expand...

It's pretty simple actually. Either they do it indoors, or they do it where it doesn't freeze. It's notable that most fish FARMING is done in more southern climates. Catfish that people would want to eat (usually channel or white) are VERY sensitive to good water quality, which makes them difficult for beginning pond keepers / farmers. Bullheads are more forgiving, (and some would argue tastier) but are not commercially viable, nor as quick growing.

I've done channel cat (unsucessfully) on a large for a homesteader but insignificantly small for a commercial operator scale. Given enough money I'd do it again in a heartbeat, but I'd go BIGGER, which would be easier.

Regarding ice, it's a simple matter to run a small aeration pump to keep a hole in the ice. Heck, even a livestock watering float would do the job. IF the power doesn't fail...

At our family farm back in the Philippines, we do both chickens AND fish. The fish however are Tilapia, which can subsist on nothing more than algae and can reach market/table size in as little as 3 months. But we don't freeze, and algae is as easy as tossing chicken droppings into the water on a regular basis. :)
 
wingstone said:
NO !!!!!!
I draw the line there, had a sister in law with fish tanks and I thought they stank....

I agreed to try this on small scale but it has to be out in the barn,,,besides we are on borough water here at the house,,,between the cost of water and all the crap they put in it, the fish would die,,,,honestly some nights I can smell the chlorine in it just like a swimming pool....

need to do a lot more research,,,If the electric would go out, how long can fish survive in that situation,,,,it can take us a couple hours to get to the farm at times..I am assuming if he wants to do plants also he would need some kind of grow lights inside the barn......

see what I mean,,,these are still basic questions,,,he would just dive in and figure all this out as he goes,,,,I prefer to find someone already doing this and lean on them
Click to expand...

If they STINK, she's doing it wrong. A clean, well maintained tank should smell like a country pond after a rain. Either she was overstocking her tanks, or overfeeding the fish, either of which would lead to that stink of built up ammonia.

How long fish can survive without electric? THAT depends entierly on your stocking levels and the time of year. With a small ratio of fish to water, you might not even need aeration. With a very dense and crowded setup? A matter of hours at best. In the winter, with lower temps, oxygenation will be higher, and less respiration will be occuring due to lower activity levels. This will lengthen the amount of time you can get by without aeration.

I strongly urge you to stay the course with your (P)research. Lessons learned hands on with large scale fish keeping are monetarily very costly.
 
stake said:
Wing/CC:

Trout need cold water and deep to survive the summer....1/2 the trout that are stocked in PA won't live through the summer...warm water fish are better...and you really want to build a pond and should have natural springs to feed it....Catfish can tolerate the cold and the heat the best...but the cost of aquarium space would not work (yes, I have had aquariums since I was 10)

If you have enough land and can make the pond big enough and it in a drainage area that may work....I have heard of a few farmers with ponds they just get some bass and cats seed the pond and go fishing when they are hungry....pan fried bass and scrambled eggs is a great breakfast. I am not an authority on the subject, but I do know one family that built a lake/pond on their hunting cabin property....always thought if I hit the lottery, I'd do the same....my two cents....
Click to expand...

It's the oxygen levels that are the big issue with trout. Temperature too to an extent, but there's just not enough O2 in a still pond. Damming doesn't tend to work too well for salmonids; as you correctly state, the depth is useful in controlling temp. But by removing the flow of water, the tendancy is for less surface agitation which is the primary method of O2 exchange. Most stream trout will not take well to such conditions. Lake species will manage, but tend to be significantly slower growing.

Regarding farm ponds, stocking is the issue. Bass and Catfish tend to be apex predators; you'll need to provide suitable forage fish. (Shiners, dace, bluegills, etc.) Population management is key, unless you don't mind eating runts.

That's not such a bad thing though. Runts are still tasty. :)

Didn't know you were a fish guy Stake. Got any tanks at the moment? Fishkeeping has been a hobby of mine for many years!
 
dheltzel said:
Everyone needs a hobby! My hobby was primarily tropical fish until about 2 years ago (bred and sold literally thousands of little fishies in my day), and I have a BS in Horticulture, so Aquaponics (the name they give combining hydroponics and aquaculture) is of great interest to me. It sounds like a fantastic idea, too good to be true, and I believe it is, at least on any scale beyond a hobby.

The major thing keeping this from ever breaking even in PA is the cost of heating the water. Solar can contribute, but will not be enough in the winter months unless you implement a very capital intensive system. You might be able to overcome that with a lot of work, but there is no magic way to make this profitable. If it could be profitable here, it would be far more profitable in the south, and given the lack of commercially viable aquaponics companies anywhere in the US, it's a long way to breaking even in PA. That said, if you want to "eat" the heating and labor costs by treating it as a hobby, go for it.

Of course most of us could never produce our own eggs and meat at the cost we could buy it in the supermarket. It's a fun pastime and we don't count the costs of our labor and lots of other things. Home grown eggs might easily cost $10 a dozen or more if we really calculated the costs. If you approach fish the same way, it could be a lot of fun. If the resulting tilapia fillets costs you the equivalent of $42 a pound and you can buy them in the store for $5.99, who cares? You had fun doing it.

If you do go down this path and want any advice, just ask. I've never tried "aquaponics" in the sense they are using it now, but I understand the principles.

And if anyone in SE PA is interested in tropical fish, PM me. I can tell you about a fantastic auction on March 1st that always has incredible deals. Think "livestock auction specializing in tropical fish".
Click to expand...

Yeah. The devil that noone talks about... the costs. :-( I'd actually argue the other way though. Doing things BIG tends to be cheaper over all per unit, but with a much higher initial capital costs. If I had doubled down, I'm convinced I would have been more successful. If I had spent that money on chickens, I'd have been kicked out of town. ;-)

You wouldn't happen to be talking about the DCAS annual auction would you? :) I used to attend regularly, but time rarely permits...
 
LizardCat said:
Yeah. The devil that noone talks about... the costs. :-( I'd actually argue the other way though. Doing things BIG tends to be cheaper over all per unit, but with a much higher initial capital costs. If I had doubled down, I'm convinced I would have been more successful. If I had spent that money on chickens, I'd have been kicked out of town. ;-)

You wouldn't happen to be talking about the DCAS annual auction would you? :) I used to attend regularly, but time rarely permits...
Click to expand...

Yup, the DCAS auction in Springfield. I'm the main auctioneer there. I love to talk fish and plants. If you come out, come find me.
 

New posts New threads Active threads

Back
Top Bottom