Perch width, what’s the science?

[Shadrach]

I just let out about 60 birds. More to be released later. I doubt if more than 15 will use roost they have not been using when confined. My approach is not going to work. Somehow penned flocks will have to have manipulated roost and location must be controlled for, somehow. This is going to be a hard thing to test on side of choice.

I physically put the three I mentioned back up the tree, so that was pretty easy. Also, I know exactly where on which branch they roost.

 

[centrarchid]

I know branch location of each as well. Those here also roost in very particular locations as individuals. Some I pull down every night for a good three weeks so my activities do not get them to adjust roosting habits. The Great-horned Owl can get them to adjust very quickly.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

This is pretty far off the topic of roost width at this point, but it's really interesting, so I hope it's all right to keep going...

Handling chickens and song birds a lot and even some raptors, the mechanism in chickens is not a well developed, especially in relation to weight of birds. Chickens are much easier to dislodge from roosts even when rigidity of roost is factored in.

Tendon locking does not occur in the Paleognathae (Ostriches, Rheas, Cassowaries, Emus, Kiwis, and Tinamous), and Galliformes are a very early branch off within Neognathae (which consists of all birds not in the Paleognathae), so it stands to reason that they could have an earlier, possibly weaker version of TLM compared to songbirds, particularly. We've also taken a relatively small pheasant and multiplied its size by several times to create chickens, likely without any or much change to their ancestral TLM, so that could also play a role, though I do see that you mention in relation to weight... I guess a tell as to whether weight makes a difference would be whether bantams have heightened tendon locking ability compared to large fowl birds. You wouldn't happen to have bantams, would you?

 

[centrarchid]

I am looking at American Games (4 to a little over 5 lbs) and American Dominiques (6 - 7 lbs). Former is more similar to Red Jungle Fowl than are the bantams of any variety I have seen. The American Dominques are likely to have different abilities for holding on to a particular roost type and will likely be similar to other dual purpose breeds. Differences easy to notice in adult bird roosting near upper limits of where they can reach.

 

[Geena]

This made the front page? Six pages of roost...Way back in the day, the old salts of the chicken world (USA) believed you must have a certain kind of roost or your chickens (meat birds) run the risks of having an undesirable chest development and structure. There isn't any science behind this that I can find...Some say you need a roost 'This high' or 'This low', again...no validated science behind it other than personal opinion, perspective, and individualized experiences. Doesn't make it a wrong or bad choice, it should be what your birds prefer...not what you prefer should be the philosophy. They will let you know if you actually want to listen to them. Use what you want, do what works for your flock.

Exactly, there are way too many different types of chickens to claim definitively that one perch size or shape is preferable to another. It's like asking if it's good for dogs to swim in the river - the Newfoundland, heck yeah - the chihuahua, not so much.
My adult chickens are big, 9 lbs and up, therefore they have 2 x 6's flat side up, 18 inches off the floor, because that's what works best for them. Even then some of the heaviest ones have to work a bit at getting up and down. They would never even attempt roosting in a bush or a tree.

 

[centrarchid]

Exactly, there are way too many different types of chickens to claim definitively that one perch size or shape is preferable to another. It's like asking if it's good for dogs to swim in the river - the Newfoundland, heck yeah - the chihuahua, not so much.
My adult chickens are big, 9 lbs and up, therefore they have 2 x 6's flat side up, 18 inches off the floor, because that's what works best for them. Even then some of the heaviest ones have to work a bit at getting up and down. They would never even attempt roosting in a bush or a tree.

Tree may not be able to hold them. Wild turkeys here pretty picky about trees they use and how they access them.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

I am looking at American Games (4 to a little over 5 lbs) and American Dominiques (6 - 7 lbs). Former is more similar to Red Jungle Fowl than are the bantams of any variety I have seen. The American Dominques are likely to have different abilities for holding on to a particular roost type and will likely be similar to other dual purpose breeds. Differences easy to no in adult bird roosting near upper limits of where they can reach.

Red Junglefowl weigh between 0.44 and 1.1 kg (about 1-2 lbs), males larger than females, according to the CRC Handbook of Avian Body Masses, so that's why I figured bantams would be a closer model for the form and function of Red Junglefowl. I do have a Sebright hen who weighed around 0.6kg last time I checked, so I could play around with her grip strength, though a single individual wouldn't exactly give us a conclusive answer.

What do you mean by 'Differences easy to no'? I'm not sure I understand the wording there.

 

[Shadrach]

Red Junglefowl weigh between 0.44 and 1.1 kg (about 1-2 lbs), males larger than females, according to the CRC Handbook of Avian Body Masses, so that's why I figured bantams would be a closer model for the form and function of Red Junglefowl. I do have a Sebright hen who weighed around 0.6kg last time I checked, so I could play around with her grip strength, though a single individual wouldn't exactly give us a conclusive answer.

What do you mean by 'Differences easy to no'? I'm not sure I understand the wording there.

How would you test the grip strength?
I've got Bantams, not sure how much they weigh.
I suppose you could measure the branch deflection but how would you measure the force used to remove the chicken from it?

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

I assume Centrarchid is basing TLM ability on grip strength / how difficult it is to remove birds from branches when perched, no measuring device required, but I suppose that would be a good question to ask before messing around with it.

 

[centrarchid]

Red Junglefowl weigh between 0.44 and 1.1 kg (about 1-2 lbs), males larger than females, according to the CRC Handbook of Avian Body Masses, so that's why I figured bantams would be a closer model for the form and function of Red Junglefowl. I do have a Sebright hen who weighed around 0.6kg last time I checked, so I could play around with her grip strength, though a single individual wouldn't exactly give us a conclusive answer.

What do you mean by 'Differences easy to no'? I'm not sure I understand the wording there.

Note edit above. The American Games are a stronger with respect to size. The bantams look similar but behavior and physical abilities are way different. The bantams are almost like little robots that do not learn have have strong physical abilities that are relevant to roosting comparisons.