Peritonitis Contagious?

[lissabeck]

Hello all,

Just joined, recommended by a friend. Have had the worst three weeks. One day all my hens were happy and healthy. Next, three were VERY poorly. Got to vet same day, and one had to be pts, and he checked over the other two. Prescribed antibiotic. (They were already on Tylan as one girl had an eye injury, resulted in infection, and to be on safe side as swollen eye is also sign of mycoplasma). Vet upped it to Amoxicillin, 5 days. We lost the other two poorly hens that week. Vet put them back on Amoxicillin for another 7 days. I have also given VermX gut conditioner, probiotic and apple cider vinegar as was worried about potential sour crop side effects. I convinced the vet to try the treatment for coccidiosis, and I also gave them flubenvet as a precaution. We lost 4 more in the next week and a bit. So in less than 3 weeks, 7 dead hens. We had an autopsy on one and results finally back.....bacterial peritonitis.

I am really confused. First, it was my understanding that peritonitis is a single bird issue.....not contagious. And I don't know how 3 courses of antibiotics wouldn't have sorted a bacterial infection. And now they want to do a fecal sample. I have three hens left, and two are looking poorly today. I don't think one will make it through the night. They are now on Baytril.

If anyone has any advice/suggestions/experience on something like this, please let me know. If anyone knows of anything infectious travelling through Cheshire, please also let me know.

Symptoms that we viewed: Some hens were fine, no apparent symptoms, no changes in behaviour, then dead next day. Others had a slow decline, hunched appearance, go off food, no interest in scratching, pecking, or free ranging. No mites, not egg-bound, comb colour was fine, no scaly leg. Their poo was odd. Runny, and viscous, like the consistency and colour of the white of an egg, with some white calcifications in it. When vet did a vent exam, he found some blood in the feces, and for a couple of the hens, there were actual pieces of flesh.

Thanks in advance.

Heartbroken.

 

[TwoCrows]

I am no expert here, but from what I understand is that peritonitis is internal laying. Because the egg is deposited somewhere in the cavity of the abdomen, many times e-coli bacteria develop and of course is spread from bird to bird via water, feed and grounds. They may all be contracting an e-coli infection. There are several strains of e-coli and not all of them respond to all antibacterial medications.

Peritonitis is very difficult to treat, as the hen keep laying. If you had a prized hen that you wanted to save, you could keep her in a darkened area so that her cycle of egg laying is interrupted and she might possibly heal. But this is not a sure fire thing.

There are a few antibacterial medications that can help, but again, if the hens are still internally laying, there is little you can do. But for the ones that are only catching e-coli, you can use:

Chlortetracycline, Erythromycin, Neomycin/Oxytetracycline, or Tylan. All of these you might want to use for atleast 14 days or longer, if you are seeing results.

It also wouldn't hurt to add probiotics to the feed or water and vitamin supplements to the feed as well to boost the immune systems of the chickens.

I am sorry you are having so much trouble. If you end up losing all these birds, you will need to do a complete disinfection of the grounds or possibly start over in a new area should you get any new chickens.

 

[Suzie]

I have only heard of EGG peritonitis - that is something that "Spekledhen" knows a wealth of experience about.... I am amazed to hear that peritonitis can affect other chickens - yes, a bacterial infection ....but being passed to other chickens is shocking to me... I will observe this thread with interest.

Suzie

 

[lissabeck]

Thanks for your information. I wasn't aware of E Coli being a result of peritonitis. TwoCrows, just wondering, how do you go about disinfecting the ground? We did turn over the soil in their smaller run area, which is about 10' X 20', and has half of it as a concrete slab. That area had been rough with mud due to all the rain....but since digging it over, not muddy anymore. We don't close their coop as this are is fox-proof, so they can get up as early as they want to get to food and water. Then they have a main area that they are in all day that is 50' X 25'. And they also have about an acre that they free range for a few hours each day. How much of that area would have to be disinfected? I just don't understand how they wouldn't be able to take a culture of a hen to determine "yes it is E Coli." Now they need a fecal sample to determine what bacterial infection it is? Maybe I watch too much CSI, or I have to remember that not everyone thinks of chickens in the same way...but I would have thought that they kept looking in an autopsy to find the actual specific cause. As the vet has told me, only certain bacteria respond to certain antibiotics, I would think the autopsy wouldn't be finished until you found what bacteria. I can't imagine there wouldn't be any remnants. Just found out we lost one of the last three. Down to two. That makes 8 lost. I can't imagine there is really any hope for the remaining two.

 

[dawg53]

I've dealt with E Coli. There are many types of E Coli. Fecal samples should be sent off to a lab to determine what type of E Coli is infecting the birds so proper treatment can be given. Chickens naturally have it in their system, just like cocci. It's when some type of stressor upsets the balance between the good bacteria and the bad bacteria (E Coli) in the guts and it gets out of control and takes over the chickens system. When we notice the symptoms, it's usually too late and the bird succombs to the bacterial infection. Baytril treats E Coli as well as many other types of bacteria and is very potent, probiotics, and poultry nutri drench all in combination might help if caught in time, recovery time is slow. It's an ongoing process to pull them back from death which is usually what ends up happening. It's best to cull if there's no improvement.
E Coli is spread through feces; in contaminated waterers, feeders etc...If your birds excreted in the muddy waters in the pen and then drank from it, this would explain why it has gone through your flock so rapidly.
You cant treat the ground really, bacteria are everywhere. Perhaps when the ground dries you can add lime to the soil, but I dont know if that will help or not. The best thing to do would be to shovel feces frequently out of the pen, try and keep everything as clean as possible...waterers, feeders etc...feces free.
You can add sand to the pen, that will help keep it dry. Sand absorbs water quickly and doesnt run off like dirt and doesnt turn to mud, sand also dries quicker. Keeping everything dry is key in chicken keeping. I know that seems impossible sometimes, but give sand a try to help keep your pen dry.

 

[speckledhen]

A salpingitis infection, which is caused by ecoli, can begin in high production hens when the cloaca becomes "loose" and doesn't close off the intestines completely in egg laying. Feces are sucked back into the oviduct and set up an infection. That is the ecoli we're talking about here, not from the ground.

Egg yolk peritonitis and internal laying are not exactly the same thing but usually go hand in hand. They are NOT contagious. From the outside, they appear the same, and the end result is usually the same, eventual death. When yolks are stuck in the oviduct or they drop into the abdomen and cook there, they set up a bad infection and block off other organs, drag down the system, sometimes the body fills with fluid, including the lungs.

I'm not sure what happened with your hens, but sounds like they had multiple issues and were on multiple meds. I can assure you that EYP is not contagious. I've lost maybe 13 hens to EYP, internal laying and a couple of very old ones to ovarian cancer, but not in that very short frame of time and I've never had them on all those meds yours were on- no contagious respiratory illnesses here.

These threads may be helpful to you.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=362422

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=195347

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...ences-on-egg-reproduction-production-necropsy

 

[lissabeck]

Thank you all for your information. E coli makes sense, as dampness has been horrible. I poo-pick both in the coop and in the enclosures every day, but when it was horrendous rain, it would all turn to sludge. My hens will drink from any puddle anywhere. In fact, they seem to prefer it to the drinker, which I scrub daily. I am down to two left from ten. They are on the baytril now. One is already showing signs. Vet is now asking about fecal samples, but in my mind it is probably way too late to make any difference, as it has taken out 8 already. Is it worth the cost of doing the sample if they are already on the baytril and not likely to live anyway? Sorry if I sound tight, but I have already invested several hundred pounds in the last few months in vet bills, and feel like this is throwing money away, with no chance of positive result?

 

[dawg53]

Thank you all for your information. E coli makes sense, as dampness has been horrible. I poo-pick both in the coop and in the enclosures every day, but when it was horrendous rain, it would all turn to sludge. My hens will drink from any puddle anywhere. In fact, they seem to prefer it to the drinker, which I scrub daily. I am down to two left from ten. They are on the baytril now. One is already showing signs. Vet is now asking about fecal samples, but in my mind it is probably way too late to make any difference, as it has taken out 8 already. Is it worth the cost of doing the sample if they are already on the baytril and not likely to live anyway? Sorry if I sound tight, but I have already invested several hundred pounds in the last few months in vet bills, and feel like this is throwing money away, with no chance of positive result?

Whether you want to spend the money on your birds or not is up to you, we cant make that decision for you. Times are tough for all of us. Good luck.

 

[speckledhen]

Wish I knew what was really happening with your hens. As dawg said, it's up to you whether or not to spend more money on this, but if it was me, I probably would not, since most are gone.

Mine always drink from puddles, too. It's really their nature to do that, even when they have fresh, clean water in the coop and outside. Never have had any issues because of it, so hard to say what is going on with your situation. I'm very sorry you've had to deal with this.

 

[Chickinlittle1]

No, Peritonitis is NOT Contagious & if you have Baytril in your possession here is a suggestion. I personally was told by my AVIAN Vet that Baytril was the best for this condition. I even tried Baytril in combo with LA200 & the abdomin swelling went down some & eating resumed "somewhat" but it did NOT cure the problem. In some cases its chronic but being a Medical Asst. I started thinking out of the box & this is what I Tried. First off I adopted two Australorps from an agency that saves layer chickens so they were more proned for this condition. Once I stopped a two week course of this LA200/10 day course of Baytril I started to observe Slow Regression. I keep an Empty CLEAN Enema bottle on hand for forcing water or meds when necessary so I Thought"what about coming at this problem directly"
I proceeded to put aprox a 1/3-1/2cup of Room Temp Baytril with aprox. 1 tsp. of Mineral oil in my enema bottle. I lubed the tip & placed the hen on a ramp with her facing downward(cause the liquid to fill the cavity & move forward). I strattled myself over the ramp placing the front of the Chicken between my knees (just enough to keep her steady). I pet her & talked to her as I GENTLY & then tipped the bottle so the liquid was all at the front of the tip to AVOID Air being injected. I GENTLY inserted the tip in (aprox.1in.) & Slowly but fluidly squeezed the bottle. TRY TO Keep one hand on the abdomen so you can feel how much its distending. Of Course she will squabble some! Once finished I try to keep her in place just for a min. to allow the fluid/oil to saturate the inside.
I then gently place her on the ground & then watch. Within a min. or so she WILL push it out & be sure to examine the excrement!
You MAY see what looks like cooked egg,or bits of sandy like shell. My FIRST Time doing this I observed a thin sandy shell structure. IF YOU CAN'T GET BAYTRIL THEN USE TETRACYCLINE SOLUBLE WITH OIL. I HAVE USED BOTH & HAD SUCCESS. Its not a bad idea to resume oral administration either & if you DON'T want ALL HENS drinking it then as long as you know where the air hole is at the back of the tongue you can use a secondary bottle for this OR CLEAN the SAME BOTTLE out & use it for both.
I noticed after doing this flush 1x a day for 4-5 days & also checking the swelling of the abdomen to make sure that was regressing she started eating more & more! Seven days later she resumed laying again & back to her usual personality. However this CAN relapse & in my case DID about 1 mo. later. The tip off was that she would get in the nest & sit for an hour but NO EGG!(along with a major decline in eating).
It took me 5-6 days to catch on & THIS TIME I WAS IN FOR A BIG SUPRISE! I used the Baytril again but only the cavity flush not oral. On my second eve I seen her push the fluid out & thought that was it. i only observed some white material which "could" have just been urea(chicken urine). LUCKILY I CAME BACK 5 MIN LATER BECAUSE SHE HAD WENT UP TO THE NEST & LAYED SOMETHING THAT LOOKED LIKE A HUMAN STOMACH WITH AN INTESTINE LINE ATTATCHED!!
Upon closer examination the best way I can describe it was A SOLID mummified Egg.
I cut it open & the Yolk was still inside. I don't know what the 1-2 in. cord was except maybe a combo of infection/more egg material. The abdomen drastically decreased in swelling & I'm continuing the flush 1x a day for the next 5-6 days (maybe a few more) due to the amt. & size of the specimen. You have to watch their eating,water intake,& hardness/distension of the abdomen. If you start flushing & start seeing a sm. egg come out I would stop at this point & watch her for a few days.
She is starting to Molt now so I know her egg production should pretty much stop for awhile & maybe till next Spring which is a good thing for healing.
I Expect this will be an ongoing problem. Seeing a wet nasty bottom is also a sign of Peritonitis. I would onnly resort to this if the Oral treatment just isn't doing any good! I had a 7YO Barred Rock Hen & the Avian Vet tried to tell me she had Cancer & in her 30yrs. of experience she was 99% sure that it was. I asked about Peritonitis & she stated it was too hard to be an egg & an egg would move about. WRONG! This particular Hen would only eat seed & I would observe her pick food up & drop it over & over. After NOT seeing the signs that the Vet stated I would see with Cancer(smaller poops,straining to poop,etc) I decided to finally take her & have her humanely put down through UC Davis. They also do a Free Necropsy. What did they find? MODERATE Peritonitis & NO CANCER! When I seen similar signs with this one I decided to experiment & try something on my own so this is what I came up with. They will probably only eat layer crumble & seed and it won't be a lot. If you Love your Hens like I do & can get your hands on a Feeding tube from an Avian Vet,or Feed store I WOULD advise some Tube Feeding. You can even use the Baytril as the Liquid base & handle it all at once(1x Morn.& Eve). I added a sm. amt. of a Vitamin suppliment to my mix. I used my Vita Mixer to prep 4-5 days worth so it wouldn't be as time consuming(layer pellet or crumble with a bit of crushed garlic & a tad of Pectin is what I USED along with 1c. Baytril for my liquid base). As long as you keep it Refrigerated & warm it up via micro(Room Temp) take what you need & return it to the Frig it should keep & I haven't had a problem yet. i figured the Garlic acts as an additional anti- bacterial & the tsp. of liquid Pectin would regress bacteria growth & also is good for the health. Unfortunately I have had 3 Hens with this condition so plenty of experience.
I CAN ONLY ADVISE WHAT HAS HELPED MY HENS & I THINK THAT THE ORAL OR INJECTIONS ONLY WORKS IN VERY MILD CASES. I JUST WISH I WOULD HAVE TRIED THIS MORE WITH THE BARRED ROCK BUT SHE WAS 7 & HAD A GOOD LONG LIFE.
GOOD LUCK& GOD BLESS! luciana