Pet Chicken Feed Question

[Corgiqueen]

Where I work we have a “Farm Veterinarian” who just so happens to work on all animals both domestic and farm. When the vet (who we’ll call Dr, F) examined the chickens, he determined them to be overweight. Dr. F told my boss that because the chickens at my job are just used for educational purposes and not egg laying purposes that the chickens should be on an all scratch grains diet. Dr. F stated that the chickens don’t need a layer diet because we don’t use or eat their eggs. Dr. F stated that a layer diet was for laying hens only and that even though our chickens were laying breeds that they still don’t need a layer diet. Dr. F stated that by not feeding them a layer diet, the laying chickens breeds will stop laying eggs altogether.

Now fast-forward to yesterday where Dr. F stopped by to examine an injured laying hen. Dr. F gave the chicken a full examination and it was determined by him that because of the depleting calcium in her diet and her consistent egg laying regardless that she should have been on a high calcium diet to help with her egg laying. Dr. F stated that each time she was laying eggs, the calcium was being stolen from bones and other internal organs that contained calcium.

Now here where I need help. Being these are only “Pet chickens“ should they be fed a scratch only diet even though they are egg breeds?

The breeds include Rhode Island red, Dominique, Americanas and white Leghorn.

 

[SilverBirds]

No chickens should be fed a scratch only diet. It's fine as an occasional treat, but it's low in protein, which can lead to obesity, and isn't nutritionally balanced. Laying chickens, regardless of if they're pets or being used productionally, or if you're eating their eggs or not, require a diet with extra calcium. They should be eating a layer feed, or an all-flock/flock raiser feed with oyster shells on the side. How old are the birds? Older chickens would probably do better with a flock raiser type feed with oysters on the side, since they're not laying as often and can choose to get calcium if they need it.

Are the chickens getting anything else besides chicken feed? Overdoing treats can lead to weight gain and other health problems. But it's possible that the chickens were fine to start with and the Vet didn't know what he was talking about.

 

[The Welch Chickens]

Now here where I need help. Being these are only “Pet chickens“ should they be fed a scratch only diet even though they are egg breeds?

No. A scratch only diet, or even just a "mostly scratch", will result in horribly unhealthy chickens and early deaths.

Dr. F stated that by not feeding them a layer diet, the laying chickens breeds will stop laying eggs altogether.

This does not sound true to me. Perhaps they would stop laying, yes, but they would also probably die the next day.
I'm not experienced enough to answer everything, but I can tell you that all laying hens, whether you plan to eat the eggs or not, need calcium of some sort. You will have some very sick birds if you don't.

Sorry to sound harsh, but I highly doubt the quality of "Dr. F's" knowledge in anything, just by seeing what he has said about chickens. It is much better to ask questions on this forum. Get a new doctor.

Good luck with your flock, and welcome to BYC!

 

[TooCheep]

Wow. Just wow...

That is some of the absolute worst, most harmful, ignorant advice I've ever heard. And from a "professional"????? Damn.

Scratch is low nutrition (lacking in protein, vitamins, minerals, fats), but high in energy (calories). It is not good for overall health, but fine as a treat (~10%). It's like trying to live on bread.

I agree with not using layer feed (that is a point of disagreement among backyard chicken owners), but calcium is not optional for a laying hen and his reasoning was absolutely horrible. The alternative is to feed a "flock feed" and offer calcium "on the side" (a longer discussion I won't get into here).

Hens will lay eggs regardless of whether you eat them. It corresponds very closely to a human woman's cycle, but speeded up and delivered externally. Their cycle occurs whether or not there is a rooster involved, much like a woman's cycle will occur even if she isn't having sex. Unlike women, these eggs are just easily visible/usable.

They use a lot of calcium in the process to form the shells. When they don't consume enough calcium, they pull extra from their bones. If the process continues, they will end up with thin shelled eggs and finally no-shell eggs (and weakened bones). This is not something to be encouraged at all and is shocking advice coming from an animal "healthcare professional". Not laying eggs for an egg-laying animal isn't a good thing. It is a sign of mismanagement, distress and poor health.

The equivalent in humans is called "amenorrhea" (lack of menstrual cycles) with a side-helping of osteoporosis. This has multiple causes, but the most common is extremely poor nutrition. No ethical doctor would recommend this as a way to avoid the issues that come along with even healthy menstruation.

Frankly, if I was there, I'd fire that person on the spot, let them know why and report them to any animal welfare organizations and veterinarian certification agencies I could find. No joke. Wow...

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Get a new Dr.

your current vet has recommended deliberately starving the birds to the point that it ceases their perfectly normal egg laying cycle. Forgot to mention that said birds will first cannibalize their own bodies - including leaching calcium from their bones - to support more or less regular laying until they simply aren't physically capable of it any more.

then came back and diagnosed the perfectly foreseeable consequences of their dietary recommendations...

If your Dr. is concerned about the hens being overweight, you need to cut the energy density of your feed while maintaining the nutritional content. Sadly, MkE numbers aren't found on most feed bags, and there is no easy "fix" for that. But given the advice this Dr. has offered thus far, I doubt that he (or she) can adequately condition score a bird for obesity, either.

My flock varies between 50 and 100. I live with them, visible outside my window as I telecommute to work, and have for years. Rare that one is more than 500 feet from me unless I've headed into town. I also take my birds apart routinely - one of my protein sources. Even though I hang birds from a scale while disrobing them, and get to poke around inside to get eyes on fat levels, etc, I can't reliably condition score a bird for obesity just by touch, particularly with mixed breeds.

So, while I don't have an immediate dietary recommend, I do STRONGLY recommend you find a new vet. Then, if space and resources permit - try increasing your bird's activity levels by spreading feed as far as possible, and in multiple locations, from their hen house to increase their energy consumption on a good, high quality, nutritionally balanced feed.

 

[aribubbs]

Where I work we have a “Farm Veterinarian” who just so happens to work on all animals both domestic and farm. When the vet (who we’ll call Dr, F) examined the chickens, he determined them to be overweight. Dr. F told my boss that because the chickens at my job are just used for educational purposes and not egg laying purposes that the chickens should be on an all scratch grains diet. Dr. F stated that the chickens don’t need a layer diet because we don’t use or eat their eggs. Dr. F stated that a layer diet was for laying hens only and that even though our chickens were laying breeds that they still don’t need a layer diet. Dr. F stated that by not feeding them a layer diet, the laying chickens breeds will stop laying eggs altogether.

Now fast-forward to yesterday where Dr. F stopped by to examine an injured laying hen. Dr. F gave the chicken a full examination and it was determined by him that because of the depleting calcium in her diet and her consistent egg laying regardless that she should have been on a high calcium diet to help with her egg laying. Dr. F stated that each time she was laying eggs, the calcium was being stolen from bones and other internal organs that contained calcium.

Now here where I need help. Being these are only “Pet chickens“ should they be fed a scratch only diet even though they are egg breeds?

The breeds include Rhode Island red, Dominique, Americanas and white Leghorn.

No! They should be fed a complete pellet and supplemented (up to 10%) scratch!

 

[Corgiqueen]

Thank you all for your responses. I’m going to show my boss these responses and hope that she will look into getting a new vet because this is what I’ve been saying all along but because he’s a vet, my boss values the vets opinion over anyone else’s opinion.

 

[K0k0shka]

That vet is full of , as others have already explained. It's really unfortunate that misinformation like this is coming from a "professional", and I can't blame somebody for trusting a "professional" - after all, that's how it should be, in an ideal world. But that's not how it is in this case. These umbrella veterinarians that claim to treat such a wide variety of animals are always suspicious. There's very little in common between a dog, a chicken, and a cow - how can one be an expert in all animals? Within good vet practices, they usually have specialists within the practice - a bird specialist, a small mammal specialist, reptile, large farm animal, etc. Each has specialized knowledge in their area. A "general vet" has less capacity to expand in every single direction and cover the specialized knowledge of every species or even animal type. Sounds like your boss is being cheap (whether intentionally or not) and trying to cover all the bases with one single know-it-all vet, instead of hiring specialized vets for the different species, but there's a cost to that, and the poor chickens are paying the price. Whatever this vet's area of expertise is (if he even has one), chickens are NOT it and he should not be advising anybody on chickens, at all.

 

[TooCheep]

Thank you all for your responses. I’m going to show my boss these responses and hope that she will look into getting a new vet because this is what I’ve been saying all along but because he’s a vet, my boss values the vets opinion over anyone else’s opinion.

You might want to suggest consulting a second vet. Ask about feeding scratch instead of layer feed to prevent laying eggs and see what they say. Assuming the second vet actually knows anything about chickens, their answer will help to convince your boss.

 

[Brooks_]

These umbrella veterinarians that claim to treat such a wide variety of animals are always suspicious.

Yes, but this surpasses that. This is not even knowing the basics. This is did they even pass the board (or whatever it is for DVM).