Pheasants cross breeding

[Charliet]

we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this subject. i agree with you that we need to perserve them in their pure state and if yall want to just breed the true from then go right ahead More power to you. i have no problem with that and i will do the same with all my breeds impyean
tems satyr elliot swinhoe red and yellow gold reeves amherst but i will also have the peach and splash. here in the usa we each have free speech so we can each think what ever we want. i never once said i never head of people wanting to keep lines pure i said i have never had people get so fired up about mutations and people having them . besides my argument is not that yall want to keep lines pure it is what reees wrote and i quote
(Drives me nuts when I see a person's list of species (and mutts) they are raising......and the list includes things like "Splash" Golden (and other abominations))i know what your thinking i know you had free speech, thats not it. the problem is i did not like it and i dont care what you say you were putting down mutations and the people who raise them, you think less of us and you know it. so if you want raise pure then raise pure and if you dont like mutations then dont have them, tell every one what you think and if they dont like it and want to keep mutations then you can look down on them to .you know its true you probably look down on me for defening them i would like to hear from other to see just how this forum thinks

 

[Reeves]

I state what I know, because many have no idea how harmful crossing species really is. Others have given examples...

The reason it is so hard to find any Golden or Amherst with good blood lines, is the people that get them because they are "pretty" and end up with something like a Golden hen and an Amherst male. Then sell chicks to others, not knowing what they have done.

There are others doing this intenionally. These people do not care what they are doing to the species as a whole. Looking to make a quick buck.

One more thing ....

Species = Pheasant

Breed = chicken


Like what has been said, you cannot seem to see the big picture. I too am done.

 

[Charliet]

i see the whole picture but i too am tired of argueing it is getting us no were i beleive what i beleive and you as well its useless so im done too other must have an opion though

 

[turkaholic]

Quote:
I'll chime in here. When it comes down to the endangered pheasant species, the ones in trouble due to habitat loss, keeping their captive lines pure is a must in my opinion. However, breeding them in captivity for long periods of time eventually breaks them of their innate wildness. I'm afraid that Goldens and Amherst stocks in captivity have been breed so long under artificial conditions, even keeping their lines "pure" would be futile if the wild stocks were to go extinct. The reason is Goldens and Amherst have had the wildness breed out of them. This wildness, instinct and ability to survive in the wild, is essential to any recovery program. It is very difficult to establish a wild population from captive raised individuals no matter how pure they have been kept in captivity. The wild turkey, and recently the California Condor are examples. The Condors now raised in captivity for release are done so from individuals trapped in the wild, and then the young are raised with virtually NO human contact. All the Goldens and Amhersts I've ever encountered couldn't survive a week in the wild without ending up as a meal for some predator. Most all are just too friendly! It may well be that if the wild Chinese Golden ever goes extinct (or the Amherst) the captive population won't do anything to bring it back. It may be that trapping and transfering wild Goldens and Amherst to new locations and appropriate habitat is the way to go. Establishing new wild populations in different locals would be the best insurance against extinction. Unfortunately, this usually only occurs when it’s almost too late, and at great expense I might add.

As for hybridizing, I don't know how you'll stop it other than to discourage it and educate others to see the birds in their natural form. Forget the color mutations in Ring necks and Goldens. They are mainly recessive and most wouldn't survive in the wild. A peach golden would stand out like a beacon in the brush, where a natural Golden despite its color combinations of red, yellow, brown and blue, actually will melt into the shadows.

This has been an ongoing debate on every bird breeder's forum I've visited. To each his own, but if you want to work towards pure, I applaud your efforts.

 

[destinduck]

charliet, in a perfect world people could make all kinds of birds crossing everything. but here is the real world. farmer joe gets goldens and amhearst puts them together making frankenbird gets a couple beautiful crosses then sells or gives away the other 10 or so pieces of CRAP then every body that gets birds off these people get junk. I KNOW IVE SEEN IT!!!!! thats why we like PURE BIRDS This is what ALWAYS ALWAYS HAPPENS. I promise.

 

[ranit]

Just have to chime in here. I too prefer to keep my birds pure although I have seen some crosses that I thought were beautiful. Unfortunately waaaayyyyy too often I have seen people selling crosses as pure goldens, amherst, etc. never telling that they are acutally crosses. I myself actually bought some chicks one year that were supposed to be amherst but when they started coloring out it was apparent they were crossed with red goldens. It was at an auction and I had not had the chance to look at them closely. I gave some of the males to my nephew who just wanted some pretty birds for his aviary (was not going to breed) and the others I sold (very cheaply I might add). I stressed to the people I sold them to that they were crossed, not pure. Yes, this is question of being honest or not in selling something for pure that is not, but sometimes I think people just starting out buy birds they think are pure which are not and then turn around and sell offspring for pure also not always realizing they have crosses.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Quote:
That's right, and like what Reeves was saying, the problem doesnt lie with educated keepers. It's the hobbyist who gets them cause they are pretty , cant tell an amherst hen from a golden, or swinhoe from any of the others. just starts breeding, then sell his offspring as what ever the obvious male was, or even worse, those that do know, dont have a hen of that species and cross and sell just because they can. Believe me theres a lot of them, just check out some of the auction sites for a while, green peafowl are the worst at that.
Then with the mutations, what Tony was getting at is say you have a mutation, then breed it to a nonmutated bird, well, there goes that line of true to color birds for that year, and any of their possible offspring, just to further a mutation...
Like it's been said to each his own, if you do keep mutations, just for God sake, keep them with other mutations.

This isnt the only thread about all this, look threw the pheasant and peafowl sections, it's been an on going battle, maybe then you'll understand why so many were so defensive over the pures, seems more and more "keepers" just dont care any more and want to start treating these birds like chickens, lets cross them up and make something pretty attitude. (not mindful breeders mind you, hobbyist)
And no, goldens and amherst havent been domesticated. If you think that, let yours out of their pens and get back to me tomorrow.
Silvers will stick around, but given the chance
ruffed species will hit the road.

 

[turkaholic]

Boggybottoms wrote:
And no, goldens and amherst havent been domesticated. If you think that, let yours out of their pens and get back to me tomorrow.
Silvers will stick around, but given the chance
ruffed species will hit the road.

I never used the word domesticated and didn't mean to imply it. Sure you can let them out of the pen and they'll go , but that doesn't mean they will reproduce or even survive. I see way too many shooting preserve ringnecks, that act nervous and flighty, be picked off by hawks and foxes within the first few days of release. Hitting the road and the ability to survive (what I refered to as wildness) are completely different

.

 

[tigerrrrrrrlilly]

I was reading a book from the early 60's that there were very few "pure" red goldens left (even back then) that did not carry at least a small amount of amherst,they were being raised in captivity and cross bred back when George Washington was our president. I think that even in the wild, these issues would still be a problem as it is nature for mutations and evolutions to exist. Aren't all animals, birds, plants, fish etc. some mutation of a previous species? Is the pheasant not believed to be somehow related to turkey, peafowl, grouse, quail and??? No matter how hard you try, nature will eventually change the nature of things, and us breeding in captivity is more screwing with mother nature than them crossing is, because they will eventually just be another domestic pet, not another self sufficient wild creature that has developed in different ways as nature has done for billions of years. So on the position of preserving the species, it should be argued that they should not be held in captivity in order to preserve the species, not that you have to breed pure to preserve the species. If it wasn't meant to mutate at some point on earth, it would not be possible. There are millions of species that are now recognized as pure, that are mutations of some other past species. Could be they are meant to be something else 1 million years from now!
Lets just live and let live, so long as no one gets hurt and care the best we can for what we have!

 

[maloga]

I am curious. How many pheasant purists have their stock dna tested for purity based on genetic marker locations? I bet all the professionals devoted to species preservation have it done right? Also how do you purists know that your birds are not mutated. Coloring is not the only type of mutation with most mutations not being readily apparent.