Pictures of Possible APA Standard Marans Please...

[amazondoc]

Quote:
Sprigs are a problem in many breeds, not just in Marans.

A lot of people will probably disagree, but IMHO a bird is a sum of its parts. It's not just a comb, or a chest, or a tail. So you have to judge ALL of the bird, not just one of those parts.

 

[blackdotte]

Side Sprigs- Crawford, Poultry Breeding & Genetics, p191.

Side sprigs can turn up when two lines that have never shown any are mated together. I think (personally) the idea that it comes from Penedesencas is an urban myth.

I agree one should look at the whole bird, but should one purposely perpetuate disqualifing faults?

David

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
Well....IMHO it kinda depends. Depends on what you've got available, for one thing.

For instance -- say you've got two BCM roosters. One has a side sprig, but he also has sensational coloration, a good tail angle, and came from a very very dark egg. The other has a perfect comb -- but his chest is solid red, he's got a squirrel tail, and his egg was only a 4. Which rooster do you use?

 

[pbjmaker]

Quote:
I have lots of colours of Marans & Orpingtons. They free range together when not in the breeding pens. They are not a problem together. The Marans are a much busier breed than Orpingons & sometimes go much further afield. Marans males usually tend to be most dominant male.

Except for mine - I posted of video of him getting flogged by my showgirl. Maybe someday he will man-up...

I think I'm going to print off the standard and go check him over to see what he is "lacking" besides a good comb.

 

[Krys109uk]

For instance -- say you've got two BCM roosters. One has a side sprig, but he also has sensational coloration, a good tail angle, and came from a very very dark egg. The other has a perfect comb -- but his chest is solid red, he's got a squirrel tail, and his egg was only a 4. Which rooster do you use?

I can see your point, but having both genes in your lines would be a right pain. Perhaps another male altogether would be a better option?​

 

[mountaintopchicken]

Thanks blackdotte. I have that book and will read that section.

I can see your point, but having both genes in your lines would be a right pain. Perhaps another male altogether would be a better option?

I was being a little flip when I said "for some reason I can't stew him". Actually, there are lots of reasons. One is that another male altogether might be a better option, but he might not be, either.

1. Marans are about egg color first. Since I got a roo with a side sprig out of my original hatch, I can already assume side sprigs are in my birds, and I will be dealing with them for a long time. However, I took the eggs from the hens I hatched out, and entered them in two egg shows. And got Grand Champion in each one I entered! I was totally amazed and thrilled. So the egg color is there. If I have to work on type (secondary to egg color) for a looooong time, I'm o.k. with that.

2. I have read that it is easy for a new breeder to lose egg color over time. For this reason I want to keep each and every one of the original 2 roos and 4 hens I hatched out until they keel over from old age, so I can retrace my steps if needed. But there are no guarantees that one roo won't die, so Mr. Side Sprig is a back up.

3. I'm starting with what I have. I feel privileged to have birds from this breeder. I don't want to cross lines. Therefore, each bird is valuable to me.

4. I didn't start out in Marans because of the Marans craze. I wanted a dual purpose bird that would make a good roaster as well as lay nice big dark eggs that would attract egg customers. I actually got interested in them because of the utility aspects. I can enjoy the utility aspects while working on the sprigs..​

 

[drom]

Quote:
I was being a little flip when I said "for some reason I can't stew him". Actually, there are lots of reasons. One is that another male altogether might be a better option, but he might not be, either.

1. Marans are about egg color first. Since I got a roo with a side sprig out of my original hatch, I can already assume side sprigs are in my birds, and I will be dealing with them for a long time. However, I took the eggs from the hens I hatched out, and entered them in two egg shows. And got Grand Champion in each one I entered! I was totally amazed and thrilled. So the egg color is there. If I have to work on type (secondary to egg color) for a looooong time, I'm o.k. with that.

2. I have read that it is easy for a new breeder to lose egg color over time. For this reason I want to keep each and every one of the original 2 roos and 4 hens I hatched out until they keel over from old age, so I can retrace my steps if needed. But there are no guarantees that one roo won't die, so Mr. Side Sprig is a back up.

3. I'm starting with what I have. I feel privileged to have birds from this breeder. I don't want to cross lines. Therefore, each bird is valuable to me.

4. I didn't start out in Marans because of the Marans craze. I wanted a dual purpose bird that would make a good roaster as well as lay nice big dark eggs that would attract egg customers. I actually got interested in them because of the utility aspects. I can enjoy the utility aspects while working on the sprigs..

That all makes perfect sense to me. I would have a very tough time getting rid of that rooster; he's lovely. It's a hard decision. And, people do seem to rush to assumptions about what other people's goals are with regard to breeding Marans.

I think perhaps the important thing is proper disclosure if you sell stock specifically for breeding to other people. And proper communication to understand what their goals are. This is always an issue with breeding and raising any animals. Breeders really have to walk a fine line between disclosure and protecting themselves. You have the naive, inexperienced people who buy stock from you that have unrealistic expectations and believe breeding and raising animals is easy.
Then you have the insincere breeder-peers who pretend that problems only exist in other people's lines and breeding programs-not theirs of course.

I've bred and raised animals of different species for almost 20 years, spent a fair amount of time in the show ring and at breed inspections, in breed clubs and working with judges and I don't sell any of my stock to anyone. And my hat is off to the conscientious and experienced breeders who do. They have to put up with such a ridiculous ration of crap from inexperienced and insincere people.

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
I can see your point, but having both genes in your lines would be a right pain. Perhaps another male altogether would be a better option?

Unfortunately, that's often not a realistic option. And, as David pointed out earlier, just culling the rooster won't get the genes out of your birds. Your hens are probably carrying them as well. Will you be willing to cull your whole flock?

 

[Chef]

Very well said both of you!

Ok... short and sweet from me. If you have marans for fun and food then dont worry about any faults. When you start selling marans as a "breeder" and you breed to the "French Standard" and you have the "BEST" stock and you price your product accordingly then your birds should NOT have major faults. I know stuff pops up on occassion but that is the reason we cull right? Not sell the bird for top quality.

The old addage "Something must have got into the woodpile" shouldn't apply when you are selling top of the line "pure" stock right?


Chef

 

[Krys109uk]

Unfortunately, that's often not a realistic option. And, as David pointed out earlier, just culling the rooster won't get the genes out of your birds. Your hens are probably carrying them as well. Will you be willing to cull your whole flock?

Of course, you're right. I was thinking of the bird in isolation, which, in the real world, is unlikely. Any genetic issue which has to be bred out can be a pain. I am not in the person's position; my situation is totally different. I imagine most people might probably work with it, in their flock, if they wanted the particular birds they had. But I don't think it would be ethical to sell birds from the flock knowing they had a genetic issue, which woul be a DQ in shows.
Would I, personally, cull my entire flock? Well as has been said, it depends upon goals. My goals are usually to try to make decent birds in unusual colours. In the case of my Marans, it is to reconstitute nice birds from terrible messes. But would I breed from a bird with side sprigs? No, I have many birds & even if they had the genes necessary for side sprigs in the flock, I'd have enough not to need to use the bird with both genes in one bird. So really it's not applicable to me.​