Pied Gene In Chickens Believers😋, Discussion Thread.

[nicalandia]

I can test out the 1908 pied chicken study since I have both a Heritage Plymouth Barred Rock pullet, & a Black Sumatra cockerel.

Post the link of the study, perhaps you are missing something important

 

[MysteryChicken]

Post the link of the study, perhaps you are missing something important

Okay.

 

[MysteryChicken]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/at...281745/?hash=ae74f262254e08cd419de841632705cc

 

[MysteryChicken]

That was a pain in the butt to link.

 

[NatJ]

I just read the study.
It looks to me like he discovered a mottling gene, and called it "pied." It produces a mottled-looking bird, and is recessive--exactly like mottling. He did not CALL it mottling because there was another gene (a dominant one) being called "mottled" at that time.

I think the names have just gotten swapped around a bit, such that his gene is one of the ones now called mottled.

I'm actually more intrigued by the gene he mentions in the first paragraph: "a mixture of white and colour in the plumage, and it was shown that this 'mottled' condition, as it was termed, behaved as a simple dominant to self-colour."

I wonder name we use now for the dominant gene that was being called mottled then?

If you try to replicate his experiment, I would not expect to get mottled birds (or pied ones, either.) The one particular Sumatra rooster used in the study was carrying a single copy of a gene for pied (mottling). But since that time, there have been many decades of breeding for pure black Sumatras--so I think it is not likely that the pied (mottling) gene is still present in modern Sumatras.

Of course, if you do find it, I will be quite interested in reading about it and seeing photos!

 

[MysteryChicken]

I just read the study.
It looks to me like he discovered a mottling gene, and called it "pied." It produces a mottled-looking bird, and is recessive--exactly like mottling. He did not CALL it mottling because there was another gene (a dominant one) being called "mottled" at that time.

I think the names have just gotten swapped around a bit, such that his gene is one of the ones now called mottled.

I'm actually more intrigued by the gene he mentions in the first paragraph: "a mixture of white and colour in the plumage, and it was shown that this 'mottled' condition, as it was termed, behaved as a simple dominant to self-colour."

I wonder name we use now for the dominant gene that was being called mottled then?

If you try to replicate his experiment, I would not expect to get mottled birds (or pied ones, either.) The one particular Sumatra rooster used in the study was carrying a single copy of a gene for pied (mottling). But since that time, there have been many decades of breeding for pure black Sumatras--so I think it is not likely that the pied (mottling) gene is still present in modern Sumatras.

Of course, if you do find it, I will be quite interested in reading about it and seeing photos!

All Sumatras are purebred, descend from the original birds that were imported from Asia in April 1847 by J.A.C. Butters of Roxybury, MA. There were more importations by others in 1850-52.

Only Sumatras that aren't really original is the bantam variety.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I just read the study.
It looks to me like he discovered a mottling gene, and called it "pied." It produces a mottled-looking bird, and is recessive--exactly like mottling. He did not CALL it mottling because there was another gene (a dominant one) being called "mottled" at that time.

I think the names have just gotten swapped around a bit, such that his gene is one of the ones now called mottled.

I'm actually more intrigued by the gene he mentions in the first paragraph: "a mixture of white and colour in the plumage, and it was shown that this 'mottled' condition, as it was termed, behaved as a simple dominant to self-colour."

I wonder name we use now for the dominant gene that was being called mottled then?

If you try to replicate his experiment, I would not expect to get mottled birds (or pied ones, either.) The one particular Sumatra rooster used in the study was carrying a single copy of a gene for pied (mottling). But since that time, there have been many decades of breeding for pure black Sumatras--so I think it is not likely that the pied (mottling) gene is still present in modern Sumatras.

Of course, if you do find it, I will be quite interested in reading about it and seeing photos!

They new what mottling was, but what they were studying was different then mottling.
The pattern Pie was characterized by its resemblance to Exchequer leghorn, but had more extension of white then usual.

 

[NatJ]

They new what mottling was, but what they were studying was different then mottling.

The mottling they "knew" was a DOMINANT gene. (Says so in the first paragraph.) He called this new thing "pied" because it was recessive, so it had to be a different gene than the dominant one they already knew about.

The pattern Pie was characterized by its resemblance to Exchequer leghorn, but had more extension of white then usual.

I don't see the "more white." The last page of that paper has photos of some of the pullets they raised. Even in a black and white photo, it's easy to see how much black and how much white is on each bird. The 1st and 2nd photos show pullets with amounts of white that I've seen in photos of other mottled birds. The 3rd and 4th photos do have extra white--but that is because they also have white barring. (It says that in the caption of the photo.) Of course white barring adds extra white.

 

[MysteryChicken]

The mottling they "knew" was a DOMINANT gene. (Says so in the first paragraph.) He called this new thing "pied" because it was recessive, so it had to be a different gene than the dominant one they already knew about.



I don't see the "more white." The last page of that paper has photos of some of the pullets they raised. Even in a black and white photo, it's easy to see how much black and how much white is on each bird. The 1st and 2nd photos show pullets with amounts of white that I've seen in photos of other mottled birds. The 3rd and 4th photos do have extra white--but that is because they also have white barring. (It says that in the caption of the photo.) Of course white barring adds extra white.

Not what I meant.

Everyone has their own point of view on things, & opinions are welcome.

 

[AltonaAcres]

I have a Swedish Flower Hen that was 'pied' as a chick and juvenile. Now she looks more mottled. But as a chick her whole front was white and her whole back was blue. Reminded me of a quail. You can see part of her on the far left of this photo as a youngster. The individual pic is of her now.