Pilgrim Geese thread

[RoboDuck]

This is one of those "never happens near me" kinda things.... AARRGHH!!

http://oregoncoast.craigslist.org/grd/4465842692.html

 

[livininbrazil]

This is one of those "never happens near me" kinda things.... AARRGHH!!

http://oregoncoast.craigslist.org/grd/4465842692.html

haha, aren´t they lovely!

 

[RoboDuck]

They are. I read about several different breeds before settling on 2 breeds... Pilgrims and Cotton Patch. I have a CPG breeder 20 minutes from me. But Pilgrims apparently don't exist in Georgia. At least none that are for sale. My CPG's are so personable and friendly and I hear that Pilgrims are even better. I can't wait to finally get some.

 

[livininbrazil]

They are. I read about several different breeds before settling on 2 breeds... Pilgrims and Cotton Patch. I have a CPG breeder 20 minutes from me. But Pilgrims apparently don't exist in Georgia. At least none that are for sale. My CPG's are so personable and friendly and I hear that Pilgrims are even better. I can't wait to finally get some.

It seems to me, everything I read, that the auto-sexing geese (whitish male, solid or pied females) are very quiet by nature anyway. I would imagine (only imagining, nothing to corroborate this) that after a thousand years of being in the farmyard, that only the calmer ones would have been kept anyway. The auto-sexings in the States most likely came from the west of England, although not known as an actual breed then, definitely were a type....which most likely got there from the Normans in France..... Others (like the Shetland types) coming in from the invasions from people from the Scandinavian countries.... All very ancient, and hands-on type rearing. That´s my theory, anyway.
My 'pilgrims' seem to be mid-way between pils and cottons, so I refer to them as Pils, so as not to upset the cotton purists.

But really here they´re just 'common' geese. I find them very uncommon, they´re not easy to find,

, and they´re great birds. Love them. Have you posted your pics on the cottonpatch thread already, or could you post pics of them on here? I´d love to see your birds. I love all the auto-sexing breeds. On the cottonpatch thread, I see someone´s (can´t remember name) encouraging people to join their cottonpatch facebook.
But don´t forget pics here, please.....

 

[livininbrazil]

Thanks for finding those pictures! I was sort of striking out when I searched. So I am seeing something I think. Pilgrims, Shetlands, West of England (another bred I am in love with, just can't get here) and the Normandy and Cotton Patch all have a solid pattern gene and a dilution gene. The double dilution gives the white males.

Have you seen this page? The combination of solid pattern (Sp+) plus dilution (Sd) has produced the autosexing breed known as Pilgrim, in which males are white and females are gray. The genotype of the male is Sp+/Sp+ Sd/Sd and of the female Sp+/-Sd/-. Its one of the things I found when researching Pilgrims genetics. They also talk about the white breast patch which they call (Wb) on the page. Unfortunately the gene calculator doesn't have any pictures of the white breast gene. You can add custom genes in but it will say "Sorry, no pic yet". Still you can get an idea of what a cross will produce. The trouble I had was trying to figure out what I wanted to put into the calculator. Ramble, ramble.

I had a read, and it´s interesting that it notes that asiatic crosses are needed to introduce the belt. I´d also read this on another thread. It said that crosses with a roman didn´t produce a belt, and yet that is what the mini geese are supposed to have had introduced to them. ?
With my spot gene geese, I can´t see any sign of chinese in them, although when hatched, one of them was yellow, not with shadowing in the down, but then I felt it was because she was hidden spot, as her parents and 3 batches of siblings were all pieds, saddleback-type.
Anyway, I think they´re gorgeous and I hope to create some more, and see what the next generation produces.

 

[livininbrazil]

Well the dancing has started in the pond. I have the established pair, and the second goose that made up the trio with the established pair penned up with another male to see if they´ll bond. I do hope so.
And hoping that the two saddleback females (supposed auto-sexing) will pair off with the year-old auto-sexing young ganders to see what they produce between them.
Shouldn´t be long before nesting starts.....

 

[Tivona]

Well the dancing has started in the pond. I have the established pair, and the second goose that made up the trio with the established pair penned up with another male to see if they´ll bond. I do hope so.
And hoping that the two saddleback females (supposed auto-sexing) will pair off with the year-old auto-sexing young ganders to see what they produce between them.
Shouldn´t be long before nesting starts.....

I am looking forward to pictures! I love the saddleback look and might have gone with the Shetland geese if I could have found them. At the time I got mine I had been looking for either the Shetlands or Pilgrims. Pilgrims turned out to be easy to find in my area. There are at least 3 people that had them in driving distance. I have yet to see any saddleback patterned geese in my area though, Shetlands or others. I hope you get lots of nice babies.

 

[Tivona]

Question for all the Pilgrim owners out there concerning fertility of the breed. Just how busy are your geese in mating season?

I've had Embdens that would mate any time of the day or night, and didn't care who saw. I think that my Embden gander could have handled a half dozen girl geese and had them all with fertile eggs. He was a gentleman about it and the girls, his mate and some female ducks, loved him and flirted with him no end which no doubt helped his abilities. The Toulouse I had was not as active as the Embden but certainly did his job. My Pilgrims were very private about it. I only heard them maybe four times the whole breeding season, and I never saw the act. I had 7 babies hatch so obviously there was mating done.

I have heard many times that the fertility of the Pilgrims is lower then for other breeds. I had 13 eggs in the nest and got the 7 babies and one more that didn't hatch. Plus the first egg laid that was eaten but fertile. Plus I sold at least 6 of which at least 2 hatched as I understand. So my pair had a grand total of 20 eggs of which half were fertile. I am wondering if they mate less as a breed causing the lower fertility or if its some other reason.

The reason I am asking is I am thinking of getting another female if I can find an unrelated one to make my pair into a trio. I just am not sure how well my boy Cirrus could handle fertilizing two females. I know others have and have had trios work I am just wondering if it would be worth adding another female to my pair. What do you think, add another girl if I can or not? Think my boy Cirrus can handle fertilizing another girl next year?

 

[livininbrazil]

Question for all the Pilgrim owners out there concerning fertility of the breed. Just how busy are your geese in mating season?

I've had Embdens that would mate any time of the day or night, and didn't care who saw. I think that my Embden gander could have handled a half dozen girl geese and had them all with fertile eggs. He was a gentleman about it and the girls, his mate and some female ducks, loved him and flirted with him no end which no doubt helped his abilities. The Toulouse I had was not as active as the Embden but certainly did his job. My Pilgrims were very private about it. I only heard them maybe four times the whole breeding season, and I never saw the act. I had 7 babies hatch so obviously there was mating done.

I have heard many times that the fertility of the Pilgrims is lower then for other breeds. I had 13 eggs in the nest and got the 7 babies and one more that didn't hatch. Plus the first egg laid that was eaten but fertile. Plus I sold at least 6 of which at least 2 hatched as I understand. So my pair had a grand total of 20 eggs of which half were fertile. I am wondering if they mate less as a breed causing the lower fertility or if its some other reason.

The reason I am asking is I am thinking of getting another female if I can find an unrelated one to make my pair into a trio. I just am not sure how well my boy Cirrus could handle fertilizing two females. I know others have and have had trios work I am just wondering if it would be worth adding another female to my pair. What do you think, add another girl if I can or not? Think my boy Cirrus can handle fertilizing another girl next year?

I´ve also read that pilgrims don´t have a very high fertility rate, but I´ve not found that to be the case with my birds. Were the eggs that didn´t hatch actually infertile, or did they just die? There´s often quite a high mortality rate anyway with developing eggs.

Pilgrims are very gentle birds, of course, and I do find the males such gents.

Having said that, mine seem to be a lot more active than yours, I hear them a few times each day, and I do see them, (my house overlooks their pond, so it´s easy) but they do have smaller clutches, which is easier to keep warm. Last year one of my geese laid 6 eggs, and six eggs hatched. The other had 3 eggs, 3 hatched. Before that, i can´t quite remember, but a number of the eggs went bad, and she hatched just 2. The other hatched one out of 3 eggs, but the others were fertile, just died in shell.

This year I´m not keeping a trio, they´re now in pairs. It´s not because the male can´t fertilise so many, it´s because I feel sorry for the the subordinate goose. Pilgrims love to be in a pair. My older Pilgrim male loves his Mrs. He´s down there with a lot of other geese, but he sticks with his chosen Mrs until she´s on a nest, then he starts wandering off, when he´ll mate with any other available goose, but then when the subordinate goose hatches her babies, he steals them and takes them off to his Mrs. And the poor subordinate goose just has to tag on behind, and I did lose 2 goslings last year because of this. So, this year she´ll have her own gander. Just my experience, I´m convinced they´re much happier with just one mate.

 

[Tivona]

I´ve also read that pilgrims don´t have a very high fertility rate, but I´ve not found that to be the case with my birds. Were the eggs that didn´t hatch actually infertile, or did they just die? There´s often quite a high mortality rate anyway with developing eggs.

Pilgrims are very gentle birds, of course, and I do find the males such gents.

Having said that, mine seem to be a lot more active than yours, I hear them a few times each day, and I do see them, (my house overlooks their pond, so it´s easy) but they do have smaller clutches, which is easier to keep warm. Last year one of my geese laid 6 eggs, and six eggs hatched. The other had 3 eggs, 3 hatched. Before that, i can´t quite remember, but a number of the eggs went bad, and she hatched just 2. The other hatched one out of 3 eggs, but the others were fertile, just died in shell.

This year I´m not keeping a trio, they´re now in pairs. It´s not because the male can´t fertilise so many, it´s because I feel sorry for the the subordinate goose. Pilgrims love to be in a pair. My older Pilgrim male loves his Mrs. He´s down there with a lot of other geese, but he sticks with his chosen Mrs until she´s on a nest, then he starts wandering off, when he´ll mate with any other available goose, but then when the subordinate goose hatches her babies, he steals them and takes them off to his Mrs. And the poor subordinate goose just has to tag on behind, and I did lose 2 goslings last year because of this. So, this year she´ll have her own gander. Just my experience, I´m convinced they´re much happier with just one mate.

Out of the 13 eggs in Nimbo's nest this year 5 of the eggs were duds apparently from day one. When I cracked them they were liquid, no development at all. I was told one or two out of the 6 I sold hatched in an incubator and the first egg she laid was fertile. So total, its half that were fertile from all the eggs she laid.

I have the pen next to my room window so I can hear them when they are locked up and they spent most of the breeding season in the front yard because the grass there was growing so well. I really should have seen or heard something more then I did.

I am still pondering how my boy Cirrus would do. I really would like to get another girl if its doable. Eventually I could get another gander if the trio didn't work. Preferably though if he couldn't handle another girl I would stick with what I have. Having one pair is better for my set up then two pairs. I can do two pairs, its just a hassle.