Bedding is unnecessary. Period. Paper towels work best.
There. Now you don't have to worry.
Pine and Cedar shavings are dangerous
- Thread starter woofwoofchick
- Start date
Bedding is unnecessary. Period. Paper towels work best.
There. Now you don't have to worry.
Which is great...for maybe up to a week. Afterward, the smell will get to you with paper towels as the only bedding. But, yes, you can do paper towels for a couple of days till they recognize what their food is, if it makes you feel better. They grow so stinking fast (and the stinking part is why pine shavings are so nice!)
Well, yeah, I guess it would be pretty nasty if ya didn't change it! Yuck!
I put down new paper at least once a day. Oh god, my fussy over-mommying of my girls is showing.
Well, yeah, I guess it would be pretty nasty if ya didn't change it! Yuck!
I put down new paper at least once a day. Oh god, my fussy over-mommying of my girls is showing.Please don't tell anyone.
Hehehe, your secret is safe with me and the 130K members of BYC!
After being on this forum for awhile, I've come to see that folks who like to fuss over their birds will do so and those who don't like to fuss over things generally just do not. No amount of one crowd telling the other their way is the best way will conduce either to change because that is just the way they LIKE to be. I don't know that either persuasion will ever understand the other side of the coin. That's just the way folks are!
I guess there would be nothing to talk about if everyone did things the same, would there?
I guess there would be nothing to talk about if everyone did things the same, would there?
Good luck with your new chicks. I too am new to chickens, but didn't even think twice about putting them on pine shavings. As many have mentioned keeping them ventilated, keeping them clean, are all too important. And while it was mentioned about rodents and pine, I have to state that I have previously raised rats, mice, hamsters, and gerbils on pine and had few problems with them. That includes breeding them. The babies all grew up just fine. Now, I did always add extra stuff for the moms to shred up and use for bedding lining, so maybe that helped. The most I ever had with any of them in probably 15 years of raising these critters was a nosebleed from a particular rat. And yes, it was probably due to something respiratory, but it didn't claim her life. And as was already stated also, they plant their noses in the stuff and burrow. Chicks do not. In my short time with the chickens I have had 27 so far, and no problems with any of them! Yay!
TRUTH has been spoken!After being on this forum for awhile, I've come to see that folks who like to fuss over their birds will do so and those who don't like to fuss over things generally just do not. No amount of one crowd telling the other their way is the best way will conduce either to change because that is just the way they LIKE to be. I don't know that either persuasion will ever understand the other side of the coin. That's just the way folks are!
I guess there would be nothing to talk about if everyone did things the same, would there?
Quote:
One very good piece of advice I can offer you if you are new is that book knowledge about chickens will only take you so far. Most vets don't know much about chickens either (like NEVER let one sew up a wound).
The real knowledge with poultry is experience. So while the "I have always done it that way so it must be ok," as it pertains to poultry, it is the truth, for if you do something wrong for very long, you will quickly find out and you won't be doing it that way again. Most of the knowledge is by experience and there are many ways of doing the same thing correctly and none of them wrong . . . same with the pine shavings. I've raised hundreds of chicks over the years on pine shavings. I have tried sand but it is harder to clean, harder to deal with overall. Oh sure the chicks eat some of it but it probably helps them (as in being their "grit"). The preference between pine shavings, sand or hay, for me, has nothing to do with a "safety issue," (I had never heard pine shavings was potentially harmful . . . heck, that is news to me. I've had chickens off and on all my life and never heard that one. I have a lot of books too and have read a lot of the old literature.); the use of pine shavings has to with its ease of use and its effectiveness overall.
All the talk about chicks being fragile is really a fallacy too. Healthy chicks are tough. Sure, you'll have a chick kill over with sudden death for no reason here in there if you've raised enough of them (something was wrong with it way before it hatched-- happened in the shell). I have seen newly hatched chicks out running around with a mother hen with it below freezing and a wind that would cut you in two. They weren't fazed a bit. hen warms them as needed and they eat and run around in between. Also, I have seen a mother hen take the chicks under roosts or other livestock poop where the manure is atrocious (and I would think, "I can't watch"), she'll scratch and find the manure bugs. Those chicks thrive. I learned some time ago not to help chicks out of the shell -- those are the ones that have health issues later. Don't get me wrong, if I can do something to straighten a crooked toe or a chick gets suddenly chilled -- I'll get it over the hump but by and large, a healthy chick is a strong, sturdy animal. I guess when I saw the heading of this thread, "Pine and Cedar Savings are dangerous" and someone posts that one can argue one side but there will always be arguments both ways -- nope, not so-- because it is a fact whether pine shavings, per se, are harmful to chicks OR they are not. Years and years of experience by me and others on this forum and elsewhere have no experience with chicks succumbing to pine shavings so I'd say there is no evidence and no risk involved. You can imagine a non-existent risk all you want but it does make it real.
There are some opinion choices (preferences) to make when you have chickens/ poultry, to-wit: worm or not to worm? if you do worm, then what to worm with? how to get rid of mites when you get them? how to deal with Marek's (as in to vaccinate or not to vaccinate?)? what kind of predator control? how or what to do with other sickness? With these different issues and many others, I can respect all points of view and people have different reasons for choosing different options including their experience, their particular set-up, their goals, reason for keeping poultry, etc.. I see the pine shavings, sand, hay, straw or dirt as bedding as one of these choices but the safety issue for chicks with pine shavings is non- existent. If YOU hate the smell of pine or the smell of hay, then that may dictate your choice . . . I just don't want anyone taking away that they should choose between sand, pine, aspen, hay, or dirt, etc. because one of them is dangerous for the chicks -- NONE are dangerous or a "risk" for the reasons being argued above -- I have used all these but my preference for pine shavings is based on expense, ease of cleaning, smell preference for me, longevity, etc. The only safety issue here as to all these beddings is the "dampness" part -- chickens and damp/ wet do not go well together -- at least in regards to feed getting damp and moldy is NOT good. Closed up, damp housing is NOT good. However, there are exceptions -- chickens do sometimes want to be in the rain outside-- nothing wrong with this -- they just need the choice of going in to a dry place though. All bedding has to be changed regularly. Instead, if you want to concentrate on some important chicken rearing techniques, then zero in on: (1) keeping clean, fresh water; (2) providing good ventilation and plenty of space and (3) protection from predators ; (4) good & proper nutrition for your breed and age of stock and (5) in the summer (at least in the Southeast U.S. & any place with heat & humidity) -- make sure they have permanent shade (a cool as possible place). I guess that is why I have some old hens that continue to lay pretty good.
One very good piece of advice I can offer you if you are new is that book knowledge about chickens will only take you so far. Most vets don't know much about chickens either (like NEVER let one sew up a wound).
The real knowledge with poultry is experience. So while the "I have always done it that way so it must be ok," as it pertains to poultry, it is the truth, for if you do something wrong for very long, you will quickly find out and you won't be doing it that way again. Most of the knowledge is by experience and there are many ways of doing the same thing correctly and none of them wrong . . . same with the pine shavings. I've raised hundreds of chicks over the years on pine shavings. I have tried sand but it is harder to clean, harder to deal with overall. Oh sure the chicks eat some of it but it probably helps them (as in being their "grit"). The preference between pine shavings, sand or hay, for me, has nothing to do with a "safety issue," (I had never heard pine shavings was potentially harmful . . . heck, that is news to me. I've had chickens off and on all my life and never heard that one. I have a lot of books too and have read a lot of the old literature.); the use of pine shavings has to with its ease of use and its effectiveness overall.
All the talk about chicks being fragile is really a fallacy too. Healthy chicks are tough. Sure, you'll have a chick kill over with sudden death for no reason here in there if you've raised enough of them (something was wrong with it way before it hatched-- happened in the shell). I have seen newly hatched chicks out running around with a mother hen with it below freezing and a wind that would cut you in two. They weren't fazed a bit. hen warms them as needed and they eat and run around in between. Also, I have seen a mother hen take the chicks under roosts or other livestock poop where the manure is atrocious (and I would think, "I can't watch"), she'll scratch and find the manure bugs. Those chicks thrive. I learned some time ago not to help chicks out of the shell -- those are the ones that have health issues later. Don't get me wrong, if I can do something to straighten a crooked toe or a chick gets suddenly chilled -- I'll get it over the hump but by and large, a healthy chick is a strong, sturdy animal. I guess when I saw the heading of this thread, "Pine and Cedar Savings are dangerous" and someone posts that one can argue one side but there will always be arguments both ways -- nope, not so-- because it is a fact whether pine shavings, per se, are harmful to chicks OR they are not. Years and years of experience by me and others on this forum and elsewhere have no experience with chicks succumbing to pine shavings so I'd say there is no evidence and no risk involved. You can imagine a non-existent risk all you want but it does make it real.
There are some opinion choices (preferences) to make when you have chickens/ poultry, to-wit: worm or not to worm? if you do worm, then what to worm with? how to get rid of mites when you get them? how to deal with Marek's (as in to vaccinate or not to vaccinate?)? what kind of predator control? how or what to do with other sickness? With these different issues and many others, I can respect all points of view and people have different reasons for choosing different options including their experience, their particular set-up, their goals, reason for keeping poultry, etc.. I see the pine shavings, sand, hay, straw or dirt as bedding as one of these choices but the safety issue for chicks with pine shavings is non- existent. If YOU hate the smell of pine or the smell of hay, then that may dictate your choice . . . I just don't want anyone taking away that they should choose between sand, pine, aspen, hay, or dirt, etc. because one of them is dangerous for the chicks -- NONE are dangerous or a "risk" for the reasons being argued above -- I have used all these but my preference for pine shavings is based on expense, ease of cleaning, smell preference for me, longevity, etc. The only safety issue here as to all these beddings is the "dampness" part -- chickens and damp/ wet do not go well together -- at least in regards to feed getting damp and moldy is NOT good. Closed up, damp housing is NOT good. However, there are exceptions -- chickens do sometimes want to be in the rain outside-- nothing wrong with this -- they just need the choice of going in to a dry place though. All bedding has to be changed regularly. Instead, if you want to concentrate on some important chicken rearing techniques, then zero in on: (1) keeping clean, fresh water; (2) providing good ventilation and plenty of space and (3) protection from predators ; (4) good & proper nutrition for your breed and age of stock and (5) in the summer (at least in the Southeast U.S. & any place with heat & humidity) -- make sure they have permanent shade (a cool as possible place). I guess that is why I have some old hens that continue to lay pretty good.
I strongly agree with all your post except one small part. I have not changed my bedding in three years and I consider my chickens healthy. My coop is large for the number of chickens I have and they spend a lot of time outside. I did occasionally scrape up the piles of poop under the roost for the compost heap and I recently built my brooder under the roosts so I could use the top of the brooder for a droppings board for benefit of the compost, but most of the time I did not do that much to manage the poop, just occasionally rake it. Three years and the pine shavings are good to go, although they have broken down to pretty small pieces.
I consider cedar shavings potentially dangerous. The shavings have a lot of surface area so a lot of the vapors can escape. Cedar lumber does not have that much surface area so is not nearly as bad. People build chests out of cedar and keep clothing in there to protect against moths, but a well ventilated coop built out of cedar should not be a problem. If it is well-ventilated, it is not a closed chest.
I suspect the problems that people think they get with pine shavings are most likely due to either lack of ventilation or moisture. Those are going to be a problem no matter what bedding you use.
You are correct Ridgerunner. We agree -- I was referring to chick bedding, more specifically, in a brooder. In the hen with chick pens, I will not change so frequently. I know what you are saying -- me too on my large coops.
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