Plan B, whats it worth?

[Wifezilla]

I find these people to be very inspirational...

"Back in 2003, we at PTF first shocked ourselves and “the world” by growing 6,000 lbs (3 tons) of fruits, vegetables and herbs on our 1/10 acre growing space and proved that we could approach a high level of self sufficiency both directly and indirectly from our city lot.
Learning through years of self-taught, hands-on growing experience, none of us has any agriculture accreditation or has taken permaculture or master gardening courses. From firsthand knowledge, mixed with a passion for the environment and growing things, Jules has dramatically upped the ante on the urban food movement. Living by example, we use our “hands as weapons of mass creation™” to create a better present and a real future.
Can 1/10 of an acre (about 4,300 sq ft) grow a cornucopia of 10,000 pounds without using ANY organic NPK fertilizers? We are talking about a piece of land equivalent to 66′x66′! Such an urban food production feat has not been undertaken and documented with stats to prove its possibility. Are we crazy? Crazy, you say? Yes siree, bob. Whether or not this happens all depends on the weather. God willing, we hope to be blessed with abundant rainfall and good weather to reap a bountiful harvest! Stay tuned to this journal for the out-of-this world developments."

http://www.pathtofreedom.com/
http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/

Of course these people are in California. So for me, 3000 lbs - 5000lbs of food might be the max.

 

[GBov]

Quote:

you are so right about the time

but - says the eternal optimist - I really think I can make this work! Esp. if I get teh kids involved

And if it doesnt, at least I can eat my mistake lol

And at least hubby and I both agree about grass, GET RID OF IT!!! and plant something that takes no time and gives something back

And being in Florida both the front and back yard will be planted in a mix of permaculture and veg beds to produce food year round. There is already irrigation in place so piece by piece, it will all go into food. Beautiful and expensive food

In fact, right now I have scuppernong and pomegranate seedlings and a young mango grown from seed waiting for the move.

I could raise rabbits but I simple dont like rabbit meat, try it howsoever I cook it, its not worth the effort of raising! And quail are nice and tasty but really, to feed a family of 5 on quail takes LOTS so while I will do it, its more like a treat instead of a way to go off grid, meat wise.

I think luck will play a large part in getting this plan off the ground, finding someone like my friend with the stable. Finding someone like minded but without the time to do it themselves seems like my best shot. But until then, I will be transforming a suburban yard into as much of a food producing area as the law will allow

 

[Wifezilla]

Since I can't grow all year, I have to settle for stocking up and sprouting

 

[GBov]

Quote:
Its AMAZING what you can grow in even the smallest space but just having moved to Florida I am being amazed by what I can grow down here! Cant wait to try the wild Florida tomato

 

[Katy]

Quote:
True, but if its land lieing fallow, would the chance of something off of it be worth a chance of letting someone use it?

Case in point, the stable I get manure from has almost 2 rough acres, fenced but useless for mini horses.

Its too far from the house to be worthwhile trying there but if it wernt I'm sure something could be worked out. Pigs, chickens and goats wouldnt mind the roughness of the land one bit and the stable owner would love it if it were cleared and made useful. There is alot of land not being used for anything, many people having bought into 2 to 10 acre comunities who havnt any idea of how to use it or even want to use it for anything other than looking at but would like to save money and time by not having to mow it lol.

There is a growing movement for the "I have land but no time and I have time but no land" people. Its gaining momentum in England right now and starting to be seen here and there in cities here too now.

Having costed raising chickens (and done it too) of at or around 3 to 5 dollars butcher weight its just building housing to start that is cost prohibitive and even then, I have worked out a secure and mobile houseing system for less than $200.

Having a bit of tax back coming to us from buying a house I had planned to use my bit for this project. Goats cost $50 to $125 each and cows between $200 to $400 unless I get bottle babies and if I go that rout the goats can do double duty of providing their milk as well as ours. Piglets between $10 to $40. Setting aside the money for each kind plus housing (if its unavailable on site) would let me start slow and yet still let me get started. My little bit of tax back wont buy me any land and if its not hidden away in the form of animals and houseing and feed for them it will be sucked back into the running costs of family raising faster than I can blink. But doing it this way, I can get breeding stock and housing so the inital outlay should be off set by the savings each month of NOT having to buy meat or eggs or milk or in some cases, replacement animals.

I know its not an ideal situation but its the best I can come up with.

I am loving all your thoughts on the subject though

Cows around here go for $800-1000 for an open young cow,much more if it's bred. If you find one for $200-400 she's only going to be good for bologna.....which is where most old cows end up. If you find a cheap bull, there's a reason he's cheap....he's either mean, old and shooting blanks, or maybe kept jumping the fence. Our bulls averaged in price between $1500-$1800-- apiece. We have a cow herd so I'm very familiar with cattle prices. Calf prices vary. Holstien calves can be had fairly cheap, but in my opinion you don't get a very good return on your money for feed put into them like you do with a beef breed baby calf and those will probably run you at least $200.....at least that's what they go for at the sale barn we sell thru. Then you have all the feed expense to get them to butcher weight.

Some other things I thought of you need to consider. BTW I was raised on a farm and my husband have farmed & had a cow herd together for the last 37 years......so I do know more than a little about farming and raising animals.

First, I'd be very surprised if you find a farmer willing to barter for the rent for this venture. He's going to want cash up front. Plus most of us wouldn't even consider something like this just because of the liabilty issues that are likely to come up.

Do you have a truck and livestock trailer to haul the animals? If you dont you'll have to hire someone to do it.

If the land isn't fenced are you willing invest in costly fencing? I can pretty much promise you the farmer won't be willing to.

I wouldn't mess with the feral pigs if someone was paying me to do it!!

If you really want a fresh meat source for your family have you thought about getting some rabbit does? They could provide you plenty of fresh meat right in your own backyard.

What is the hay & grain market like in your area? You are going to need to feed them when grazing isn't available. I think the animal grocery bill will probably offset any savings on your people grocery bill every month.

Sorry to be so negative, but those of us who already own our land and make our living by farming and ranching have a more realistic view of what it takes to raise animals than you do.

 

[ranchhand]

It seems the best plan for now would be to spend a bit extra for quality foods that you like. Save every other penny that you can.

I can't really see the lovely dream coming to fruition without the DH's cooperation- if he won't even watch the kiddos so you can do it, then what are you going to do?
I do agree that most landowners are not going to offer property for rent for eggs/meat- they'd have to pay twice that just for liability insurance. And anyone who says they wouldn't need it is kidding somebody.

It is a great idea to make do with what you do have - and I wish you the very best!

 

[GBov]

Makin do is what I do best

Had to go check my prices for cows, found them as low as $125 for weened Holstein bull calves on grass to a jersey with heifer calf pair for $600 to as high as you want to go really.

Even if I just found a few fenced acres, put a couple of Holstein calves on it for 6 months or so giving some supplemental feed to help put meat on their bones and butchered at 7 months, giving one of them to the land owner (all chopped up nice and pretty) and one to me it would work out quite reasonable price wise and would fit in a chest freezer. No, it wouldnt have the flavor of 2 year old grass feed beef but it would have miles away more food value than feed lot rubbish and cost very little to produce.

I could buy - at a dollar a pound - an already fattened steer but only if I buy the entire thing and as they weigh over a thousand pounds I like my idea better lol

Same goes for pigs, for about ten dollars I can get wild caught piglets or for fourty I can get Yorkshire crosses, one is cheap and will eat anything but has a lower feed to meat conversion but the others are more expensive but convert food to flesh better.

And I could go on but you get the idea

I am not trying to make money, just food at a cost of at or below market prices. There are major problems with my plan, mainly finding someone who wants to give space for meat. It might not happen but I am going to do my best to give it a try.

Oh, and rabbits, dont like rabbit meat myself. Seems a bit of a waste of time to raise meat I dont like

 

[wombat]

As others have pointed out, I doubt you'll find someone willing to barter the use of land for a share of the proceeds.

You might be able to find someone willing to hire a farm hand, and willing to let you raise a few animals on the side as part of a wage, though. If you're willing to do back-breaking work every day for a whole season just for the fun of it, a pittance of a wage, and the space to raise some chickens and a couple calves, you might find a taker.

 

[NancyDz]

Yea I think that you are going to be in for a surprise, I dont know anyone that raises their own meat that feels its cheaper or even at same cost as what they could buy... its more about knowing what you are eating... not saving money.
Have you priced what it costs to butcher and package a whole cow? You mentioned giving the meat to the landowner all wrapped up and ready to go.. that will cost you some money right there. After living on acreage and raising animals myself.. its truly a LOT of work as your husband says... I would recommend like someone else said .. that you volunteer on a local ranch.. maybe trade for a pig or something... and get some firsthand experience at what all is involved. I think you may rethink things a little as what your describing is going to be a money pit IMHO. Sorry... just being realistic.

Good luck

Nancy

 

[Katy]

Quote:
Jersey's make great little milk cows, but they've got even less meat on their bones than a holstein does. Not what you want for butchering unless all you want are soup bones.

Only 7 months of grazing isn't going to get you many pounds of meat. That means the calf will more than likely be less than a year old at butchering and unless you've really grain fed it a lot, it's not going to be very big and will have very lean meat, which meat that is too lean=tough meat.

If you find someone willing to rent you some ground, be sure and take out good liabilty insurance. We carry it and it covers us if one of our cows gets out on the road and someone hits it we're covered for them suing us for damages. It's especially important since you won't be there to notice right away if they get out.

I don't like rabbit either, probably would if I didn't know what I was eating, but a lot of people do.