PLANNED POULTRY GUARDING DOG

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I absolutely love keeping up with this thread! I am almost done reading through all the entries.
Centrachid, how did you know when your dogs were ready to be left alone with your chickens? I am training my lab to watch over the chickens and he is doing quite well. He used to be very bad and tried to chase and grab them and now he walks around them and doesn't try and chase them nearly as much. I had him out with me yesterday when they were free ranging and he was ignoring them completely. One of my flighty Sebright roosters walked by and got spooked by him and he got a little riled up but he immediately stopped when I said "leave it" he is young and responds to commands very well. I would like to be able to leave him with the birds for short periods of time.
What clues did you look for before you trusted your dog with your birds?
The question you ask about when the dogs are chicken safe unsupervised is the most difficult to answer. I have had a lot of dogs during my life and no two where the same in regards to how long it took for the chicken safe condition to be realized. They also varied as to how they behaved once they became trustworthy which makes the answer tricky. Border collie simply totally ignored birds totally and this happened after a single day of work. That dog was never confined and was acquired as an adult (history was not known as acquired as stray). Dalmations varied greatly and still had aggression issue when birds approached dog food. Black and tan hounds used for coons and foxes (rather different dogs with respect to looks and behavior) where the breed I worked with the most. I only truly trained one of those and she was considered exceptionally smart even by my elders who had lots of hounds. She was the dog I trained in about a day not to mess with chickens with help from brood hen in back yard. As a pup she got hammered a couple times after killing some chicks and even a battle damaged cock tied to tractor. That same dog later learned to help me catch specific birds off walks, often more than one in just a few minutes, by running down the bird I started her on and only it was pursued. She could catch bird without damaging a feather and hold it down until I picked it up. When I was done, so was she. She was very easy to read and walked or ran differently around the birds in a manner I and birds could see was not threatening. How the tail and ears was held was informative. The dogs I did not train got there hinnies whipped when they got into birds and where already in the process of being trained for other purposes which made the process easier. Again, the birds behaved more calmly around those dogs once the dogs lost interest in them. Of the current dogs, Scoob comes fairly close to the hound I trained, but he has not been worked as long or thoroughly. She, like Scoob was trustworthy at less than a year (still pups to me) but Scoob did not get truly competent at his job until he was a good 18 months old. The female coonhound (Hype was her name) did not hit her stride until she was about four which is typical for slow maturing black and tans. Lucy has been the most problematic I have ever worked with. She is very smart and is just now becoming trustworthy at about 18 months. I have to get on to her every time she gets after chickens in a new situation. She leaves adults and chicks alone but goes after juveniles whenever she encounters them in a new situation. When she encounters one outside where it normally goes, she is after it and actually caught a juvenile stag in cockyard-1 just the other day that does not normally have any free-range birds in it. I had to get onto her about it. When I released stag back into the area around cockyard-2 Lucy showed no interest in it. I suspect she will catch and harm any juveniles that are outside their normal free-range territories and the birds themselves may be setting her off. She can distinguish a bird on home or alien turf by the way it acts as can I. I am still working on this issue and making head way but getting her in line has not been a black and white process.

The key is the birds themselves, they can tell when the dog is up to now good. Broody hens are really good at it. If the birds are calm. they perceive no threat. Chicks and one eyed birds are not good for this. A given dog can change its ways quickly if it is one that is not trustworthy in your absence. Lucy was there when about a year old. I had to watch her when she could not see me and bust her in the act which took time. Scoob would also roll her once I got on to her. The chickens at that time seemed able to tell she could turn on and off. Despite the problems Lucy has caused, I am confident she will make a very good dog. She is out right now in dark patrolling somewhere among pens and a about four hens with chicks roosting on ground in pasture. She will be working out all night and usually takes lead when detecting threats. She is the proactive dog while Scoob is the reactive dog that provides the muscle.

The behavior of the chickens is the key and I do not have a hard and dry method for knowing the answer you seek. I have lots of birds and those out now are expendable so if she does slip up the losses can be absorbed as part of her training process. At this point the worst is past and she has already prevented more losses than she causes, especially when you see what I can get away with in terms of how my birds are housed or not. My front porch flock gets absolutely no protection except that provided by the dogs.
 
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RUTT STARTING WITH GUT PILES TO FOLLOW

Dear are really starting move now that we had a hard frost. They are busted up with bucks popping up in odd places at odd times. This morning at about 0430 I nearly hit a spike with wife's car. Deer hunters are already taking advantage leaving gut piles as manna from heaven for the coyotes. Coyote pack to north is unusually constant in its calling location over last couple of nights so I am guessing they have a gut pile there. Some of the deer are coming into the back yard snagging a persimmon or two from a tree before dogs run it off. An hour or so later and another deer will be at another tree at another location. Lucy also eats them almost every time she goes out under trees where she stands on her hind legs and gives a half-hearted jump up to grab one with as little effort as she can. The trees are being thinned of low hanging fruit so she and deer will have to work harder to get the fruit. I am seeing no sign of raccoons or oppossums getting into even trees down by woods. They must be getting all they can handle farther down in the valley.


Tomorrow I will begin change over to off-season configuration where pens in pasture will all be pulled back towards house so they can be moved up hill as season progresses keeping mud from heavy rains from piling in pens. Also makes so if a heavy snow hits I have lot less farther to trudge though the stuff carrying buckets. Covers on pens will be switched from blocking sunlight to blocking northerly winds and allow sun to hit birds to ease cold stress during day. This will be first full winter with electrified fencing and I will soon be able to set up the poultry netting so we can potentially funnel a fox in a situation where it is much more vulnerable to be caught by dogs. Whole setup will also be made to I can see all pens in beam of flashlight from front porch. Also makes so dogs are easier to see, especially when racket they make while walking in crunchy snow makes it hard to determine distance and even direction.
 
EDUCATION TIME: LOSS OF GAME STAG TO GREAT-HORNED OWL

Earlier today I moved pens to their off-season configuration. As a result a few hens with juveniles where not willing to roost in new locations so a few roosted on tops of pens. I knew this was an issue but had a bowl of ice-cream before going out to pen stragglers up. Just as I was about to finish up Scoob and Lucy opened up and ran out to the newly placed pens and made a brief bit of intense racket before Scoob came up into house doing his follow me routine. I went out following Scoob to find Lucy running about growling as she circled pens then ran over to the two locations where larger groups of birds are kept in more permanent courters then she returned to repeat. The locations are now only a couple hundred feet apart but dogs still have to hustle to get around the way they do. I began to police up hens with offspring then found hen on one of pens all fluffed like shown in image below. Same hen although picture was taken last fall about this time. She was all fluffed up like they do when disturbed by owl.



When I picked her up the juveniles bailed which was unusual. Scoob started pointing on a pullet as I policed up another pullet. I moved her and pullets into cage but could not find the stag she had just before dark. Figured he flew farther in dark and was over by Lucy in the high weeds. I went over and found him in the middle of the area Lucy was working and popping her nose. Initially I thought Lucy got excited and killed a juvenile on the ground and started looking at and realized no, something else happened and Lucy was doing her job. Stag was pierced by talons with minimal feather loss. It is very likely those wounds did the killing.


Upon closer inspection I found the damage to the right side of the head. Flesh and bone were damaged. That was classic owl damage where had begun consuming catch.



What very likely happened based on previous observations is owl perched nearby, spotted smallest chicken it could find which happened to be under a hens wing, then flew down and harassed hen with young causing stag to bail where owl followed it down, grabbed it killing stag on spot. Then it began to consume catch. Chickens, especially hen likely made ruckus calling dogs over but not fast enough to prevent kill but they did deny owl it catch. If owl typical it watching me from not very far away as I did my work and dogs patrolled in grass.

All birds are penned up now and dogs are peaked give faster response times. Rodent numbers are still very high so owls will likely come for those yet so we will have to be vigilant. Something to not is stag weighed not much more than a pound yet owl did not fly off with it. I have seen them lug off slightly smaller but not from deep grass like this situation had.
 
WEIGHT OF COCKEREL GREAT-HORNED OWL ATTEMPTED TO EAT AT KILL SITE WAS 743 g.


Owl came back later and appears to be going after the abundant rodents. Hooting was minimal which is atypical so my guess owl is a floater (does not hold a territory nor is juvenile dependent on adults). Previous years the juveniles could be heard screaming. Also odd for great-horned is visit occurred on night without moonlight. Typically great-horned owls visit when moon is bright while barred owls come in when no moon, especially when sky is also overcast.
 
DEER HUNTER ISSUE CAUSING DOG PROBLEM


Deer hunting is picking up and somebody is slipping into my little six acre woodlot to go after bambi while I am at work. During day the dogs do not chase the deer as much which may be why a buck is hunkering down really tight in milkweed and persimmon patch directly behind house. Buck lays flat on ground even when Scoob and I get within 20 feet of him. In these parts hunters frequently shoot free-ranging dogs because they think the dogs mess up hunting. My dogs are supposed to free-range into the same woods as part of their job which is setting up for a conflict. Over last two days I have had to pen dogs up. I am going to have to introduce myself to the hunter and inform him of property boundary. I may have to make so purple paint is also easier to see. Painting his tree-stand might also get point across. If same dude as last year, then he slips out as soon as I pull into drive and Scoob helped me figure out he was visiting. Real problem will be is if Scoob and Lucy decide to tree him before I can intervene.
 
Deer stand is on my property and area where deer would be targeted would almost certainly be as well. Hunter has to be coming in from west or southwest and walking across properties of multiple neighbors to get there. Vehicle is not going to be targeted. Simply introducing myself should resolve problem. I could take the route my brother does which is to collect tree stands. This is a recurring problem around here that gets really interesting during rifle season. I almost have to wear orange just to work in yard but that does not really help with the projectiles have reach well beyond what the hunter can see. Shotgun and muzzle loader seasons are much less of a concern.
 
I have a neighbor directly to the east of my property that manages and lives on 600 acres of completely undeveloped land. He has permission to put up stands and let people hunt on the property. He lets myself and a couple of his very close friends hunt there, myself because I am friends with the family and his son. I set up my own blind with his permission. He has issues of people setting up stands all the time. Usually he takes the steps out, places a "No trespassing" sign or shoots the blind until it is completely unusable, at last resort. He hasn't had recourring problems. I would make it completely obvious that you know the hunter is there and they are not welcome. Last year they has a big problem with poachers and I discovered this when I was sitting at home and heard gunshots outside. It was midnight and well past dark. We went outside and there were people not even 100 yards in the neighbors woods, near our property shooting in every direction. We could hear their dogs and see their spotlights. I called my neighbor and told him what was going on in my neck of the woods. He rode over on his four wheeler and the noise must've scared them off because they stopped right after. We also give him the description of the vehicle suspiciously driving up and down the road over and over. I was mad about the poaching but I was more angry of them shooting blindly in the direction of my house. People like that are very dangerous. :/ hopefully it won't happen again this season but if it does, further mearures will certainly be taken.
Usually a sign put up and most people will get the picture and move on.
My family is big into hunting and we have multiple leases on land all around the state, so we have had a lot of run ins with trespassers and poachers. A few times we have been sitting in the blind or stand and have had people walk right by us. We go out and tell them it is private property and to leave and not come back or charges will be pressed. That usually does the trick when we have face to face encounters. The no trespassing signs usually have people take down their stands and if that doesn't work, we take them down for them. I would definitely do something immediately as to protect your land and your family.
 
This guy I bet is a neighbor I do not know. Several folks around here have lived here for quite sometime yet I do not know them and it is becoming increasingly apparent they do not know each other as well. Possibly they are just good at minding their own businesses. They seem to think I am odd when I walk up and introduce myself. I may be ugly but not that ugly. Our poachers hunt from vehicles shoot rifle through window. More than once on way home from work last year I get behind a couple yahoos that are trying to bag their catch even as I drive up behind them on my motorcycle. They are also a bit pickled I think.
 
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