- Oct 16, 2012
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Hello all!
Could use a little assistance with gene sets and how they interact with each other please.
Background: Was looking at my flock of various breeds and was daydreaming about controlled breeding, and who would go with who. A Meyers Hatchery rooster crossed my path in pursuit of a hatchery grade RIR hen. (Don't know her origins, but doesn't look much like the exhibition reds I've seen.)
So, end result, a Red Barred Rhode Island Rock! That could be a pretty cool bird.
Next step, finding gene sets and plugging them into Punnett squares. Not so easy. Turns out there are several different opinions and/or strains with different gene sets between strains, especially with exhibition vs hatchery birds. Oh great!
First question: What gene sets should I use for each bird?
Rooster = Meyer stock Barred Rock
Hen = hatchery grade RIR
In my speculation I came up with a grossly over-simplified (and perhaps completely faulty) gene set to play with.
I called the black in the barred rock 'E' and in the RIR called it 'e'.
The barring I called 'B' and solid for the RIR 'b'.
Therefore:
Barred Rock Rooster = E/E B/B
RIR Hen = e/e b/-
(somewhere I thought I read, and seem to witness in my flock, that black and barring are both dominant, so I'm going with that!)
Here is what happens:
-F1 are going to be all barred and the males will be all hetero.
-Breed F1 rooster over a RIR hen (using my imaginary gene set) and I get an equally distributed mix, male and female of both solid and barred and both red and black colored birds. (Naming these F2.)
-Take F2 Red Barred Rooster with F2 Red Barred Hen and the results are mostly Red Barred birds, but the males are 50% hetero and 50% homo for red barring while the hens are 50% solid red or barred red. Calling these F3
-Breed a F3 test Red Barred Rooster back to a F2 or F3 control Red Barred Hen (control because of the sex link lack of hidden recessives.) If the mating throws a small percentage of solid red females then he is hetero and needs to be culled. If they throw only red barred males and females then he is a double-dose e/e B/B and will breed pure in successive generations for red barring.
OKAY, time to leave fantasy land. I KNOW that it isn't as simple as that. I've read things like mahogany and wheaten genes in RIR, and there are various forms of 'e' that only seem to confuse me, like maybe the barring is modifier of the black and not a gene on a different allele (which is what I think I did, made 'B' on a different allele, right?)
Is anybody out there willing to 'take me under their wing', so to speak, and help me understand what is really going to happen? Anybody with the patience to walk me through the subtle and not-so-subtle differences in genes/modifiers and there effects on the phenotypes that I see walking around my yard? I have a basic high school understanding of genetics, and every time I start looking at the chicken gene sets I find myself overwhelmed and confused by the interplay of so many genes/modifiers. Eager student/apprentice wondering where to start. Created the above cross to whet my mind and to illustrate what I do and do not understand yet.
Anybody got input?
Thanks
Perry
Could use a little assistance with gene sets and how they interact with each other please.
Background: Was looking at my flock of various breeds and was daydreaming about controlled breeding, and who would go with who. A Meyers Hatchery rooster crossed my path in pursuit of a hatchery grade RIR hen. (Don't know her origins, but doesn't look much like the exhibition reds I've seen.)
So, end result, a Red Barred Rhode Island Rock! That could be a pretty cool bird.
Next step, finding gene sets and plugging them into Punnett squares. Not so easy. Turns out there are several different opinions and/or strains with different gene sets between strains, especially with exhibition vs hatchery birds. Oh great!
First question: What gene sets should I use for each bird?
Rooster = Meyer stock Barred Rock
Hen = hatchery grade RIR
In my speculation I came up with a grossly over-simplified (and perhaps completely faulty) gene set to play with.
I called the black in the barred rock 'E' and in the RIR called it 'e'.
The barring I called 'B' and solid for the RIR 'b'.
Therefore:
Barred Rock Rooster = E/E B/B
RIR Hen = e/e b/-
(somewhere I thought I read, and seem to witness in my flock, that black and barring are both dominant, so I'm going with that!)
Here is what happens:
-F1 are going to be all barred and the males will be all hetero.
-Breed F1 rooster over a RIR hen (using my imaginary gene set) and I get an equally distributed mix, male and female of both solid and barred and both red and black colored birds. (Naming these F2.)
-Take F2 Red Barred Rooster with F2 Red Barred Hen and the results are mostly Red Barred birds, but the males are 50% hetero and 50% homo for red barring while the hens are 50% solid red or barred red. Calling these F3
-Breed a F3 test Red Barred Rooster back to a F2 or F3 control Red Barred Hen (control because of the sex link lack of hidden recessives.) If the mating throws a small percentage of solid red females then he is hetero and needs to be culled. If they throw only red barred males and females then he is a double-dose e/e B/B and will breed pure in successive generations for red barring.
OKAY, time to leave fantasy land. I KNOW that it isn't as simple as that. I've read things like mahogany and wheaten genes in RIR, and there are various forms of 'e' that only seem to confuse me, like maybe the barring is modifier of the black and not a gene on a different allele (which is what I think I did, made 'B' on a different allele, right?)
Is anybody out there willing to 'take me under their wing', so to speak, and help me understand what is really going to happen? Anybody with the patience to walk me through the subtle and not-so-subtle differences in genes/modifiers and there effects on the phenotypes that I see walking around my yard? I have a basic high school understanding of genetics, and every time I start looking at the chicken gene sets I find myself overwhelmed and confused by the interplay of so many genes/modifiers. Eager student/apprentice wondering where to start. Created the above cross to whet my mind and to illustrate what I do and do not understand yet.
Anybody got input?
Thanks
Perry
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