please critique horse video

[welsummerchicks]

I'd suggest you get your routine set up by talking to the trainer, after spending a LOT of time with the trainer showing you what to do and how to do it, going over what he taught the horse and how to do it, and practicing it.

It is NEVER good to leave young horses alone and not interact with them, they don't need 'time to adjust' when they come back home, they need to get into a positive, helpful routine or interacting with their person. Routine and repetition is everything. Five minutes every day is far, far more productive than 4 hrs once a month.

You seem so utterly convinced that this is something the horse does entirely on its own from the day it was born simply because it has something against you.....AND that the horse is terrified of you, simply because it does not act exactly like your other horses, I just can't think of any more advice to give, the idea is so fixed in your mind there just isn't any changing it.

 

[mandelyn]

Freisian babies can be really smart or even down right playful. They can also get bored because of their intelligence. If you do extended training periods of the same thing over and over, they can get bored. If they get used to someone working with them (the trainer) and then are asked to do the same thing in a different manner (you bringing her home) she could be frustrated because the methods are different. Or she knows you so well, so knows what she can and can't do with you. Darting around and acting "spooky" isn't always a fear thing with horses. It's something babies do. Going along just fine, and then they spazz over nothing. Could be a spook, or play, or just an "itch".

With the draft blood in her, she may not even act remotely grown up until she's 4 years old. You never can tell until you've repeated the breeding enough to know what expect from that cross.

I knew one Freisian/Saddlebred filly who was so curious and unafraid, and so easily bored, I had to think of all sorts of things to do with her. She LOVED people, and you couldn't keep her away from you. The first thing we were teaching her was attention is invitation only. She would get spazzy if you went on with it more than 10 minutes. Every 10 minutes you had to move on to something else. She had the mental focus of 4 month old puppy even though she was 2 1/2 years old. She would get really frustrated if you goofed up and did something wrong in your communication with her. When working with her, you had to block out all other distractions and focus on her and what you were asking of her. With her, you have to be perfect, on your toes, and watching her body language to know when to stop, when to move to something else, and time everything perfectly. 20 minutes with her could leave a novice trainer completely brain fried and frustrated themselves.

Her half sister, was completely different but the same age. Not as people oriented, genuinely spooky at times. You couldn't ever get after her in discipline because she wouldn't forget about it and would be hard to catch next time. Had to go real slow, real steady, and be her friend. If she didn't do what you were asking, you had to correct her in a much different manner than the super friendly one.

Another half sister, a year older, was hot as hot could be. Her dam was a TB while the other two were both Saddlebred, None crossed on draft besides the Freisian stallion, but they still weren't going to be ready for real saddle training until they were 4 years old. The things they had in common were the slowness and consistency needed to work with them. Each required a different manner with training in how you handled their different temperaments. You just couldn't work with them all in the same manner and expect each to have the same results.

So with your filly, she may be needing something in your manner of working with her than what you're used to doing. What worked on your last 10 babies may not be working with her. Or if you have really limited experience with babies, you'll definitely want to get with the trainer and learn what they're doing to have her go along so well. The smallest things can make a big difference, and it's hard to learn it on your own, someone needs to watch and tell you what you're doing that's right or wrong.

 

[farmchick897]

Quote:
I never realized a horse can be so sensitive about something I may or may not be doing.

We have Amish neighbors that are building a shed for us and they come in their horse and buggy and tie the horse to the tree while they work all day. That horse stands, still hooked to cart, while dogs run around, loud equipment noises, etc. doesn't move. Maybe I should send Bella to them for training. They told me they don't like a friendly, in your pocket type of horse, that they are lazy and don't work as hard for you. hmm..

 

[scbatz33]

Quote:
I never realized a horse can be so sensitive about something I may or may not be doing.

We have Amish neighbors that are building a shed for us and they come in their horse and buggy and tie the horse to the tree while they work all day. That horse stands, still hooked to cart, while dogs run around, loud equipment noises, etc. doesn't move. Maybe I should send Bella to them for training. They told me they don't like a friendly, in your pocket type of horse, that they are lazy and don't work as hard for you. hmm..

For the Amish, a horse is a tool. It is not a toy. They need an animal that can work all day long in extreme temps and situations. They don't have "pocket" pets.
And quite honestly anyone who has a pocket horse is looking for trouble. a 1200 pound + animal is NOT a toy. When people allow them to behave uncontrollably and not respect a persons space, then they are setting themselves up to get hurt. I doubt seriously you would enjoy how they would break and train your horse. Further, if you don't interact in the same manner that the trainer does, it's very unlikely the horse will respect you and behave the same. Horses, like children and dogs, very quickly learn who they can and can't push around.

 

[welsummerchicks]

"They told me they don't like a friendly, in your pocket type of horse, that they are lazy and don't work as hard for you. hmm.."

That's ridiculous. I've been working with horses for nearly sixty years now, and that's ridiculous. A horse that feels friendly toward its owner is going to work 10 times harder for him. If you work with your horse correctly, you'll have that bond. It is that simple.

Obnoxious, pushy behavior, demanding treats and refusing to be obedient, bumping into you and stepping on your feet is a TAD different from the friendly cooperative animal that greets you happily and wants to work for you.

Besides, horses are ALSO 'trained' to be obnoxious. The owners don't realize it, but they TEACH the horse to bump, push and demand.

Do you REALLY think a horse is going to work better for you, if it's trained by force? Do you REALLY think that your horse is going to be fixed by being knocked around? That is about the worst possible thing you could do with THAT ANIMAL.

The animal may wind up subservient (and also leap in terror if you move your hand near its face). And as long as it's tied up or you have the hand on the reins it might obey, but the SECOND it gets loose from you it is NOT going to do a single thing for you because all it wants to do is get the heck away from you. And it's far more likely to cause an accident by being so afraid of you that every time you sneeze it leaps away.

Just because someone is Amish, doesn't automatically make them a good horse trainer. Just because someone is Amish, doesn't make them decent with animals. Amish people are not different from other people when it comes to handling horses. Very, VERY few people of any group are actually good horse trainers, get good results, and don't create more problems than they solve. And very very few trainers, even of the good ones, are going to get the best out of YOUR horse, because yours is not the usual dull jughead most local trainers specialize in.

Even the best Amish trainers tend to be rather rough - I find it hard to believe you would be happy with the results or find the animal much more controllable or enjoyable - probably a lot less.

They train like most farmers trained draft horses a hundred or so years ago, and believe you me, most of that sort of training, would destroy your horse in particular, not make it better.

I've seen them do some pretty bad things - barbed wire wrapped around a bit for a scared horse that spooked now and again, a horse put in a sharp bit and the reins sawed at with all an adult man's strength, until blood poured out of the animal's mouth('NOW he ain't a gonna pull no more'). The worst one I saw was the horse that was hit in the head with a hammer repeatedly, when it didn't come when it was called.

Your horse can be friendly and cooperative WITHOUT being overly pushy and obnoxious. Being friendly in a reasonable and safe way, won't interfere with the horse working for you. Absolutely the opposite.

My horses are treated with firm patience. They're corrected when they do wrong. When they are afraid, we work it out, approaching an object and being rewarded for their efforts. They are not barging into me, demanding treats, and both of them have saved my rear, many, many times. If I fall off, I call them and they come back - a horse trained rough will NOT.

If you train a horse with force, you ALWAYS have to use force, and there is no relationship, just wary obedience until it gets away from you. When you train a horse with patience, firmness and do it in a way he actually understands and learns something from, you have a partner.

 

[vmdanielsen]

Some people are ssssoooo stupid! "The worst one I saw was the horse that was hit in the head with a hammer repeatedly, when it didn't come when it was called". What, they couldn't figure out why the horse wouldn't come to them? It really doesn't take Einstein to figure that one out! Sadly, the abusive person was probably behaviorally modified the same way.

 

[welsummerchicks]

You would think that it would have to be a person that was abused, wouldn't you? That makes sense, doesn't it?

Well it wasn't. In fact, the gal showed me the horse's head, all scarred up, and laughed hysterically about it. She thought it was a riot. And she was a fairly normal woman in other respects. We had a lot of very in depth conversations and she never gave any indication of being abused.

AND in fact, she proudly told me her dad was an 'old time farmer who did not stand for any guff from any of his animals'.

He would walk out and call the cows in. If the horse didn't come in with the cows, he would walk around the pasture, throwing this hammer and hitting the horse in the head, until it ran into the barn. He'd walk over to where the hammer fell, pick it up again, and throw it at the horse again. She laughed hysterically and informed me, 'One day he wouldn't come in, and by the time Daddy was done with him, his head looked like ten pounds of hamburger meat'.

The daughter told me proudly, 'All I have to do is bend over like I'm picking up a hammer, and the horse goes in the barn'.

On the other hand, what I do, I call the horses and they run up to me like the Russians are in Pittsburgh. I don't have to have a carrot or feed. I keep em 'tuned up'. Every single time I give 'em any feed in the barn, I call their names and they associate being called with being fed.

Carrot, or hammer. People make their choices.

 

[vmdanielsen]

It saddens me that a person can lack compassion. I can understand that if she were abused, that she would just think that abuse is how to train. Then to laugh about it! Sick!

 

[farmchick897]

That is sick and wrong. This was an Amish family? I think I'll stick with my trainers.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

I think you just need to do some more research on round penning (I don't mean this in a demeaning way at all! Just that proper round penning is a very, very useful tool!) Round penning helped my dad and I in our training soo much. I'm amazed we didn't do it sooner. It helped us catch our horses better in the field, pick up feet for cleaning, and just to bond. I find that horses really dislike running around in the circle. They'd much rather prefer to stand still by you than to run around non stop. Research how to draw her into you. Then use round penning to your advantage. Draw her in, try to touch her. If she moves, make her move around in the circle again. Think of running in the circle as the pressure. The release is standing next to you. When the horse fails to do what you want him or her to do, apply the pressure. Of course you have to start with simple things the horse can understand.

If she's just running back and forth in the round pen, send her around a few times then (when you are ready) relax your body posture and turn your back to her (Keep an eye on her at all times though. You don't want to get trampled!). You MUST be relaxed though. You can repeat a calming "whoah". She'll probably continue running around the round pen a bit, looking at you in a confused manner. As soon as she stands still and relaxes even the slightest, praise her. Move slowly and try to walk towards her. Eventually she will come to you, but in the beginning you just want her to stand still for your approach. If she moves away from you as you approach, stop and immediately send her around the circle again. It only took a few times for my horse to understand what I wanted, and I nearly peed myself when she walked right into me at the end of the first week of training. I would use my hand in a gesture like I was calling a person into me. She began to associate that coming in and standing by me was a reward. This really helped our bond and understanding, because I was then able to talk to her in a language she understood.

I would recommend just watching videos of a trainer (my dad and I used Clinton Anderson. Not everybody likes his training style, but it worked for us. We tweaked it a bit to fit our style). Take notice of the body language of the trainer and where their eyes are. This is the most important thing about round penning I think, because body language can be VERY confusing for a horse if it is not consistent or understandable. Heck, if your trainer is good at round penning, go and just watch.

Once you get her to stand still by you, use this as a tool to get her to do whatever you want. If you want to be able to touch her all over, do it. If she moves away from you, send her around the circle. Same thing with the halter. After getting her to come in to you, you can get her to follow you. Then all you have to do is put the halter on and practice with the lead. Of course you don't want to overwork the horse either, so just do short sessions and always end on a good note. They tend to remember the last thing you did with them the most. Also, after you build a strong enough bond in the round pen, you can begin practicing out of the round pen. Sometimes a horse's brain will switch gears and they'll "forget" everything you taught them in the round pen. A little bit of practice in all situations will help them remember.