Please Help, Confirmed Marek's and Mycoplasma

[Folly's place]

I hope you don't have near neighbors with chickens, because feathers, dust, and wild songbirds can spread these diseases to them. Here we are fortunate that our near neighbors don't have chickens, and our nearest other flock is 1/2 mile downwind, and she has a closed flock too.
Mary

 

[coach723]

I have Marek's in my flock. I don't send them off for necropsy anymore, I will if something different shows up that I am not sure about. When a bird becomes ill and is suffering I cull, and most times do my own informal necropsy to make sure I know if at all possible what happened. I have several with occular Marek's symptoms right now, they live fairly normal lives. I've lost a few to visceral Marek's. The varying of symptoms and cause of death from Marek's in my flock has been pretty different in many birds. Symptoms are not always obviously Marek's. Since all have been exposed and I don't sell or give away birds or chicks, I don't cull unless needed. I am working on breeding the birds that are not showing symptoms, trying to end up with birds with more resistance to the virus. That is a long term thing, it will be quite a long time before success or failure is known. I know I will lose birds, that is a given. But I also have birds pushing 10 years of age that show no symptoms. Honestly, with Marek's, it's very much a personal choice. It also depends on what strain(s) of Marek's you are dealing with. Some are much more virulent than others. Years ago I corresponded with someone who lost their entire flock except one bird in a matter of weeks. With a strain that virulent, I might make different decisions than I have with mine.
I also lose birds to things that are not Marek's related, reproductive problems, a couple with congential defects, etc. So every loss is not necessarily Marek's. It is obvious that you care about your birds, I'm not going to second guess your choices or decisions. Just know that it's not necessarily hopeless. Give yourself time to process the information you have been given, do some reading and research. Educating yourself is really the most important thing so that you can make good decisions that are not based on emotions (which is REALLY hard to do). Opinions are just that, opinions. And everyone comes to their own based on their own circumstances, knowledge and beliefs. With MG in the equation, you will likely have birds with further weakened immune systems, so that may impact your mortality. I'm sorry you are dealing with this, and I wish you the best going forward. Whatever choices you make, I'm sure they will be the best ones for you, and your flock.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Yikes! They destroy for mycoplasma? Maybe a stupid question but does it have to do with your climate?

Nothing to do with my climate, I apologize if I gave that impression. But yes, they don't want it reaching the commercial poultry supply.

If I wasn't a "breeder", and simply had a backyard flock for my own enjoyment, neither of these diagnosis would be a death sentence for the whole flock. I, like many others, wouold make individual decisions based on individual birds and close my flock. The ability to make those decisions is something I gave up when I chose to be licensed by the state and seek the approval of NPIP participation. Honestly, I think there's value to a Marek's resistant flock, at least scientifically, and when the proverbial zombie apocalypse* comes, it may be useful.

*timing of said apocalypse is up for reasonable debate, and may very well not occur in my lifetime.

 

[aldarita]

I'm confused. You already know what your flock has/ been exposed to. Killing one just to do another necropsy will not gain anything. The way I see it, you have 2 choices. Euthanize everybody right now, clean and disinfect your premises, wait an appropriate amount of time, and start over again, OR euthanize any bird obviously suffering, and let the rest live their life, and keep a closed flock. Chickens, like all birds, hide their illness until they are really sick. It's unlikely that you missed it in the first bird, and unlikely that killing a "healthy looking," or slightly off bird will gain you anything more. I'm sorry that you are going through this, it can be upsetting to lose them.

Totally agree, once you know the virus is in your flock, I would keep an eye on every one of them, when you see one sick and believe they are infected, you need to euthanize. Keep a closed flock from now on and only get vaccinated chicks, this is not warranty of not getting infected, but they will have a better chance. This is what I do, there's Marecks in my yard. Keep the coops and areas clean, give them well balanced feed, clean water and try to keep them with as less stress as you possibly can.
I have hens that are carriers and are pretty much up in years, they are healthy and happy, doing all the stuff that happy healthy chickens do.

 

[Folly's place]

@aldarita, the OP also has Mycoplasma in the flock, so adding birds is not possible.
Mary

 

[U_Stormcrow]

For those needing a quick MG summary

 

[Egg Blues]

I've dealt with what seems certain to have been Marek's. Two pullets and one adult rooster perished of it. All three had been purchased together from a dealer whom I could never recommend to anyone--if only we had known at the time. Our property is likely infested with the virus. Once here, chickens don't leave.

Marek's symptoms can be different in each bird, as others have pointed out. One of our pullets always seemed to be closing her eyes, and drooping her head -- like at least once in five minutes, for at least several seconds at a time. I called her "Sleepy." Another pullet, whom I nicknamed "Black Eye," showed no signs at all--at first. Then she suddenly appeared sick, laying on her side, and eating almost nothing. She went before the first one. We didn't necropsy, but there were swellings noticeable from the exterior indicating likely tumorous growth. Sleepy's eyes later appeared infected, and no amount of eye drops, etc. reversed the condition. The rooster became blind. It died on a hot day because it could not find the water. And that was that.

So far, with the few birds we have remaining, there have been no symptoms at all. They may not catch it. Time will tell. But, having researched the vaccine options, I am definitely going to steer clear of all Marek's vaccine/vaccinated birds. None of mine will be compromised by it. The vaccine essentially limits symptoms, while still allowing the bird to shed the virus, exposing others, and actually causing the virus to spread all the more among the non-vaccinated. It's terrible.

Some have compared the Marek's vaccine to the COVID vaccine because they both share many of the same characteristics in terms of their function within the population. And there are multiple articles now about the deleterious effects of the Marek's vaccine on all chickens worldwide.

But I like the idea of finding a proper way of developing Marek's resistance or of curing it. Perhaps lysine, an amino acid that can disrupt viruses (that's why it's called "lysine"--because it lyses other proteins, including viral DNA/RNA) could be a source of hope for treatment options. Supposedly, there is no known cure. Having a Marek's flock might give opportunity for someone to develop a cure--and that would be worth more than decades of eggs. Now, if I only had more time . . .

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

@aldarita, the OP also has Mycoplasma in the flock, so adding birds is not possible.
Mary

Actually tiamulin (denagard) can be used as a preventative as well as initial treatment for symptoms of Mycoplasma, meaning that adding new birds is very doable. Just like other poultry diseases, some birds carrying Mycoplasma will never show symptoms, while others will suffer severe symptoms for months, and even sometimes die without treatment.

Tiamulin is used off-label for poultry in the U.S., but has been approved to treat Mycoplasma for 30i-sh years overseas. Meaning there is a ton of proof showing it's efficacy in combatting Mycoplasma. My first flock (POL Isa Brown pullets) came carrying MG. I eventually euthanized a hen (nearly broke my heart) that had been symptomatic for months (MG is also known as Chronic Respiratory Disease), and sent her for an official necropsy. Then I dove in and learned all I could about MG after receiving the necropsy report. I am going off memory, but there was an in-depth study (i think from Bangladesh) that showed Tylosin is effective in treating symptoms for Mycoplasma during the early onset period, but not after birds have carried Mycoplasma for "a while." (I can't remember the exact time frame.) But Tiamulin is effective to combat symptoms no matter how long a bird has had Mycoplasma. That detail explained to me why some people on BYC report that Tylosin controlled Mycoplasma symptoms in their flock, while others say Tylosin had no effect. I can personally vouch that Tylosin (Tylan) had no effect on my hens that showed MG symptoms, while initial treatment with Tiamulin (Denard), followed by monthly preventative doses resulted in those hens Finally never again showing MG symptoms.

Wanted to mention what I know about Mycoplasma @bhawk-23 , because same as with Marek's, you can keep/add to a flock carrying Mycolasma too. I looked at your state's list of reportable diseases; MG and MS are reportable in turkeys but not chickens. (Laws vary between states.) I've always hesitated to mention Tiamulin (Denagard) on Mycoplasma threads, because the med is so effective in controlling symptoms it could easily be used by unscrupulous sellers to sell carrier birds. But Denagard is a great solution for people like you who value the lives of their birds and want to help them live symptom-free.

I concur with the other great advice you have received. Step back from the issues you are facing and take deep breaths. Then dive in, read and learn all you can about Marek's and Mycoplasma, so that you will have complete understanding as to how to best manage both diseases within your flock.

 

[aldarita]

@aldarita, the OP also has Mycoplasma in the flock, so adding birds is not possible.
Mary

Thanks for the observation, I concentrated on my answer for Marecks, missing MG completely.

 

[bhawk-23]

Thank you to everyone for the kind words, great information and most of all hope.
The Dr did an exam on our roo and said he was very underweight (which I was working on) and possibly had a neuro thing happening with his eye. Overall, he did not look well. He thought my hen looked well enough to continue treatment since I'm not planning to cull the whole flock. I just need to keep a close eye on her to make sure she does not start to decline again. He is performing a basic necropsy on Peepers to see if there is any obvious reason for his inability to recover and gain his weight back when the others are improving.
I plan to start the denagard treatments the first week of July. Unless it is safe to use 2 weeks after finishing the tylosin treatment. I would hate to overwhelm their systems, especially now.

I am keeping a closed flock for the time being.

I am still quite overwhelmed and devastated from this entire experience. It will take me some time to recover.
Thanks again, I am happy to know my girls can continue to have happy lives with a good plan in place. Though I fear I will always be scared to go on a vacation now.