Please help having mystery deaths

[rooster 2011]

this morning when I was feeding my flock I found my Breda rooster dead in his pen and he showed no signs of illness this is not the first time this happened iv had several deaths in this pen the Breda hen that was with him in the same pen died a few months earlier and before I had my pair of Breda in that pen I had three spangled game hens In that pen and they all died unexpectedly too and they were healthy hens at first I thought it was just a coincidence that chickens kept dieing in that pen but now I'm starting to wonder if it's the pen itself it it don't make since tho because the pen that they were in is right beside other pens and my chickens in the other pens are fine and iv changed waters and feeders In that pen thinking it might be a disease on the stuff in that pen I even tore down the chicken house in that pen and built a new one in that same pen but after I done that was when the deaths happened again does someone know what's going on

 

[Wyorp Rock]

this morning when I was feeding my flock I found my Breda rooster dead in his pen and he showed no signs of illness this is not the first time this happened iv had several deaths in this pen the Breda hen that was with him in the same pen died a few months earlier and before I had my pair of Breda in that pen I had three spangled game hens In that pen and they all died unexpectedly too and they were healthy hens at first I thought it was just a coincidence that chickens kept dieing in that pen but now I'm starting to wonder if it's the pen itself it it don't make since tho because the pen that they were in is right beside other pens and my chickens in the other pens are fine and iv changed waters and feeders In that pen thinking it might be a disease on the stuff in that pen I even tore down the chicken house in that pen and built a new one in that same pen but after I done that was when the deaths happened again does someone know what's going on

I'm sorry for your loss.

Any photo of the pen in question?

Unfortunately there is no way to determine the cause of death without necropsy.

Since you are seeing no outward signs of illness and all deaths occur suddenly in the same pen, I would recommend necropsy and not using the pen until you get some answers.

Anything different in this particular pen - any mold/mildew, was any other type animal(s) housed on the same area before chickens arrived, any chance there is something toxic (pesticide, metal (lead), poison, etc.) buried or leached into the ground?


Necropsy and State labs
http://www.metzerfarms.com/PoultryLabs.cfm
http://www.usaha.org/Portals/6/StateAnimalHealthOfficials.pdf
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

 

[rooster 2011]

I'm sorry for your loss.

Any photo of the pen in question?

Unfortunately there is no way to determine the cause of death without necropsy.

Since you are seeing no outward signs of illness and all deaths occur suddenly in the same pen, I would recommend necropsy and not using the pen until you get some answers. 

Anything different in this particular pen - any mold/mildew, was any other type animal(s) housed on the same area before chickens arrived, any chance there is something toxic (pesticide, metal (lead), poison, etc.) buried or leached into the ground?


Necropsy and State labs
http://www.metzerfarms.com/PoultryLabs.cfm
http://www.usaha.org/Portals/6/StateAnimalHealthOfficials.pdf
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

I figure it has something to do with what's in the Ground cause no other animals have been in the area and there is no mildew or mold because I just built a new house in that pen for them

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I figure it has something to do with what's in the Ground cause no other animals have been in the area and there is no mildew or mold because I just built a new house in that pen for them

Would be interested to see your setup - any photos?.

I forgot to ask how old your rooster was(?) Also how old were the others that died in the same pen.

It crossed my mind that it could be genetic(s), but since you have had different breeds in the same pen and same results, I would think this is unlikely.

A few more things to consider, if these were fairly young or "new" to your property (you got them from someone else recently), an overload of Cocci could be the cause, but I would assume you would have seen at least a day or two of symptoms before death.

 

[rooster 2011]

Would be interested to see your setup - any photos?. 

I forgot to ask how old your rooster was(?)  Also how old were the others that died in the same pen.

It crossed my mind that it could be genetic(s), but since you have had different breeds in the same pen and same results, I would think this is unlikely.

A few more things to consider, if these were fairly young or "new"  to your property (you got them from someone else recently), an overload of Cocci could be the cause, but I would assume you would have seen at least a day or two of symptoms before death. 

The Breda rooster would have been a year old this April the spangled game hens that died months before him that was in the same pen was 2 and 3 years old and the Breda rooster I raised him from a chick and the spangled game hens were not new they were out of my original stock of spangled game chickens and the Breda rooster that died had been wormed so he couldn't have died from worms

 

[Wyorp Rock]

The Breda rooster would have been a year old this April the spangled game hens that died months before him that was in the same pen was 2 and 3 years old and the Breda rooster I raised him from a chick and the spangled game hens were not new they were out of my original stock of spangled game chickens and the Breda rooster that died had been wormed so he couldn't have died from worms

Good to know.

FWIW Cocci is not worms, it is a protozoa that is present in the soil. Most adult chickens built resistance, but can become overloaded when placed on new ground and/or introduced to a different strain that they are not accustomed to. Cocci is mostly seen in chicks, hence medicated feed with a Cocciodistat. (usually Amprol).

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/poultry/coccidiosis/overview_of_coccidiosis_in_poultry.html

 

[rooster 2011]

Good to know.

FWIW Cocci is not worms, it is a protozoa that is present in the soil. Most adult chickens built resistance,  but can become overloaded when placed on new ground and/or  introduced to a different strain that they are not accustomed to.  Cocci is mostly seen in chicks, hence medicated feed with a Cocciodistat. (usually Amprol).

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/poultry/coccidiosis/overview_of_coccidiosis_in_poultry.html

Would putting lime on the ground or using bleach get rid of the parasites in the ground causing them to die

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Would putting lime on the ground or using bleach get rid of the parasites in the ground causing them to die

I honestly don't know how effective it would be to treat the soil with lime or bleach.

Almost all soil contains Cocci. Cocci naturally lives in the intestines of chickens, dogs, cats, cattle, etc. Walking a across a yard, we can have it on our shoes. It's only when there is an overload or being introduced to a strain that the animal hasn't built resistance to, then there is a problem. Let's be honest about chickens, they scratch in the soil, consume soil and poop. They are constantly in contact with it. Good litter management, keeping areas dry and water stations clean with fresh water go a long way in keeping Cocci loads under control.

That said, the birds you lost were older, so more than likely Cocci would not be the cause. In your adults you would most likely have seen lethargy, loss of balance, diarrhea with mucous or blood - you would have noticed something was off, overload can be fairly quick, but you would have seen symptoms.

Without necropsy, there is no way to know for sure.

@centrarchid is very knowledgeable about birds and keeping/setting up separate pens, you may want to ask (pm) them to see if they have any suggestions.

I understand that you just built new housing at this location, but to be honest, since you have had several die in this location only, I wouldn't use it until you figure this out. I looked up Breda fowl, I wasn't exactly sure what "breed" that was

They are beautiful birds and I'm sorry for your loss.