Please help identify

[Allore79]

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On Monday I just put them in the outside coop. I did have them in my garage. On Monday I came out to let them out of garage and I had a dead chick. ( I think the home I had them in must have been too small. I wasn't sure when i could let them outside). So I googled things and thought cocci according to my research. I gave them a 5 day treatment of corid in their water (ended Friday) as well as medicated feed for a week and put them outside in the coop hoping that would help. New coop has lots of space and I have been cleaning out water and feed buckets with dawn and hot water everyday. I have also been scooping through the pine shavings in the coop every day and scooping out poop every morning when I let them out. The bag of corid said treat for 5 days the retreat in two weeks for 5 days. I started putting apple cider vineager in water once corid dosage was to stop. Poop has went from having some bloody show to looking normal. Do you think I still need to treat them again for cocci? These pictures were taken earlier in the week. Weather has drop from 70s to 45 in a matter of days so I assumed that wAs why they were huddled.
Thank you so very much to take the time to let me know the chicks were sick. You did not have to do that. Very kind of you and you have some amazing eyes! That is impressive.[/quote



I got the chicks on the 23 of November. I was told they were 2-4 weeks old at the time of purchase. (Chicks were ranging in age from 2-4 weeks). That puts them ranging at 8-10 weeks. I have been feeding starter feed from co-op. Monday I started them on chick medicated feed. Should I be feeding something different? Are they not size appropriate for age?
I did slowly weaned them from the heat lamp while they were in my garage. They were off heat lamp when I put in the outside coop. Should I put a heat lamp in the coop outside. Temps have been in the 40 during day and the 20 at night. I open coop in morning and they run out and about until dusk and huddle together while rooster. I don't know if that is normal?
I will go by sumlet and put in water. Feed medicated feed until 18 weeks as recommended as well. Thank you so much for your help. I can't thank you enough. I hope to get these babies feeling better.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Quote:
They don't look stunted, however, Coccidiosis can definitely slow development. I think most are close to 7 to 8 weeks of age...the larger may be closer to 10. I have purchased lots of chicks from farmers who have a "ball park" figure for their chicks, and have seen them be off a bit. You usually can tell when chicks are only 2 weeks of age as they will be small, mostly fluffy chick, but some growing feathers, usually just at wing tips and tail. Younger than 2 weeks of age they are just downy fluffy chick with at most tiny snips of feathers at wings and tail. At 4 weeks of age they should be mostly feathered in, with some down scruff around the neck, head and tail, about twice the size of 2 weeks, looking and acting like small sparrows with early flight. This of course is generalization as breeds and environment affect growth and even gender...boys tend to feather more slowly than girls looking scruffier longer....overly high heat lamp temp or use can slow feathering as well. (My broody hatched babes often feather by 3 weeks of age, flying and scampering...looking nearly twice their age.)

I suspicion most were really 1 1/2 to 3 weeks of age, with 1 or 2 at the 4 week mark...then possibly slowed a bit by Coccidiosis...and slower because of artificial heat lamp...that always slows feathering vs. broody hatch. But overall I'd say 7 to 9 weeks of age.

If they are huddled all day, since they've gone from ambient 50(?) to 70 degree weather to 40's to 20's, and not 100% feathered in for some, you might consider putting out a heat lamp at one end of the coop but only if you can do so without risk . (I burned down a coop that way....new outdoor rated extension cord with flood lamp...young pullets knocked it down during the 20 degree weather at night, caught straw ablaze, loss all and the coop, nearly loss the house....close call). You do want them to acclimate to the weather without relying on the heat lamp, so it should be something accessible but not prevailing.

Transitioning is always a bit trickier in winter with heat lamp aided chicks, more so when you have Coccidiosis in the formula. Cold can definitely stress chicks/young birds.

Most importantly, have a weather/wind/draft proof coop with lots of warm soft bedding that they can snuggle in during the day if they feel cold....if they will use it. (Sometimes they insist on huddling in the elements.)

Yes, I recommend the Sulmet at this point to really knock out the residual overgrowth of Coccidiosis. Then yes, absolutely, they need to be on medicated chick start, not co-op starter. BTW: Overcrowded, heat lamp boxes, with spillage is a petri dish for Coccidia, so I always start my artificially brooded chicks on medicated chick start.

I really empathize and try to go as "green" as possible, but honestly, there are times and reasons for real "meds." My heat lamp brooded chicks need the medicated starter for all transitions. (My broody hatch babies, never...momma acclimates them from hatch).

Finish the Sulmet course first, then put them on the medicated feed and keep them on that until 16 to 18 weeks of age (at least a month). Watch as you pull them off of that, but they should be fine by then. If you see any more bloody poo or huddling, isolate that bird and re-treat it with either Sulmet or Corrid while leaving the rest on the medicated chick start as you don't want to keep eradicating the total coccidia population...you want those birds able to build proper immune system to do so. The medicated (Amprolium) based feed is very low Amprolium formulated to stunt and slow coccidia without eliminating to allow the growing bird's own immune system to mature and take over. Corid is high dosage Amprolium. Sulmet a sulphur anti-microbial, anti-bacterial antibiotic.

When you have young chicks that succumb to Coccidia before their immune systems mature, then you have a bit of catch up and tinkering to get them to a place of balance. Once you've done that, then they can be medication free supported by good co-op feed (as long as it is high protein, proper calcium, and good nutrition....not all are) and the ACV and probiotics.

After that it is keeping their coop/run reasonably clean, avoiding pooling water/feces, and then deciding on your worming schedule/philosophy. Also add a nice area of dusting for them to keep lice/mites down.

Wishing you the best of luck.
LofMc

 

[Allore79]

Taking heat lamp in the coop does make me a little nervous but I can walk in coop so I could probably put on ceiling and secure it. I have about 4 inches of shavings on floor in coop. I made a poop hammock for under roosting bars so I can clean easily every day. Then I shift through shavings.
For the run should I pick up feces as well? It has mostly grass with a little muddy area by gate. I wanted them to be able to eat all grass before i put something in run like sand or wood chips. (Run is about 30 feet by 20 feet) I open gate to let them free range during day but they don't really come out of the run a few do but most don't. I have carried them to field and they look around for a bit but come back to run. Little Stinkers!
Thank you again for all your help. I can not thank you enough! You're wonderful!

I did not know anything about worming. When do I do that?

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Taking heat lamp in the coop does make me a little nervous but I can walk in coop so I could probably put on ceiling and secure it. I have about 4 inches of shavings on floor in coop. I made a poop hammock for under roosting bars so I can clean easily every day. Then I shift through shavings.
For the run should I pick up feces as well? It has mostly grass with a little muddy area by gate. I wanted them to be able to eat all grass before i put something in run like sand or wood chips. (Run is about 30 feet by 20 feet) I open gate to let them free range during day but they don't really come out of the run a few do but most don't. I have carried them to field and they look around for a bit but come back to run. Little Stinkers!
Thank you again for all your help. I can not thank you enough! You're wonderful!

For coccidiosis outbreak (acute stage until all symptoms gone), yes, you should keep the run picked up reasonable well....the oocysts live in the poo, and they can stay in the soil for months re-emerging in the proper conditions...warm, springtime temps with rain. You don't want a new outbreak then. ETA: Good news, if you have a good prolonged freeze, it will kill a majority of the oocysts, but not always all.

I personally would keep them in the coop if there is room and not encourage free ranging. They aren't ready yet. They need to feel comfortable in their new coop and run before tackling the whole broad world. They are running back to the coop/run because they feel more secure there. Let them.

In totally healthy chicks, I transition from heat lamp box at about 6 weeks, having acclimated to ambient outdoor temperature. If it is cold (I personally don't heat lamp brood in winter time for this reason), you will have to transition to an indoor garage for enclosed ambient temperature (which you did), then introduce them to the enclosed coop/run only after fully feathered in, usually 8 weeks. After several weeks of adjustment there, as they will be fearful of their new surroundings, I will open up the gate and let them forage. This helps if you have other flock members to allow fence greetings then free range foraging. It cuts down on the close contact hazing. It also helps young birds acclimate and feel comfortable and less stressed.

LofMc

 

[Lady of McCamley]

...also....since you've got known Coccidia in the mix....I personally would put something in that run that is easy to clean and change. You don't want the oocysts embedding in that soil and high concentration, especially at the muddy gate.

The big boys field rotate and disinfect to prevent coccidia overgrowth. You always want to stay ahead of it.

Us little guys field rotate by changing litter/run chips and then clean/disinfect feed bowls/water dispensers and coop when needed. (I recommend hydrogen peroxide solution made from Oxiclean...let sit warm and bubble...won't eradicate but will definitely help sanitize and less toxic than the "real" stuff the big boys use).

LofMc

 

[Allore79]

What would you recommend to put in run? Shavings,Straw, sand,wood chips? I don't know what would be best. Use Oxiclean mix in the run on the ground? Sorry I am new to this and I am not sure exactly what you mean. Thank you so much!

 

[tannysue88]

I have learned so much by following this thread! Thank you for taking the time to write this all out.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

What would you recommend to put in run? Shavings,Straw, sand,wood chips? I don't know what would be best. Use Oxiclean mix in the run on the ground? Sorry I am new to this and I am not sure exactly what you mean. Thank you so much!

What you use in the run depends on your soil mix and needs.

I prefer in my heavy clay, Oregon rain soaked soil, to use cheap bark chips that the local electric company grinds up and delivers for free....it is predominately fir and pine. We (as in my beloved husband) at least once a year, often twice, adds a new heavy layer on top of all our main area that the bird's free range in. (They killed the grass long ago with over grazing).

That's for my large areas. For smaller run areas, that receive heavy use as I pen them there overnight to release for general yard during the day, I prefer pine shavings, finer than heavier. It's cheap and the carbon material (wood chips) binds with the ammonia in the bird poo to keep smell and bacterial growth down. The pine chips are especially good for that as pine has a natural anti-microbial factor (if in doubt, look at the ingredients of Pine-Sol cleanser).

Some fear pine for birds due to the oil, but I've never ever had a problem if you have good ventilation. Just never use cedar chips as that will cause problems with their respiratory systems. I use the deep litter method where I dump fresh pine shavings on top of the dirty run litter (unless I have illness break out, then I scoop and remove). Twice a year I alert my gardening friends that I've got compost! They come with buckets, shovels and a smile...and I get my coop runs cleaned.

Some like to use sand, and that can be an awesome choice in the right area. I find sand tends to stagnate easier, and with my clay soil, sand and clay make concrete. It also is not great for compost unless you add a lot of organic material.

My personal least favorite is straw. While it has seed heads that the birds enjoy, I find it does not break down well for composting and carries a lot of weed seeds. It also molds easily in my wet area.

Use what works best for your needs and is cheap and easy to get.

As to the oxiclean...add a good heaping scoop to a gallon bucket of water...use that sudsy, bubbling mixture to scrub down the coop. If you've got heavy caked on organic material (poo and feed sludge), I've put dry on directly, then wet it down, then let it stand for 30 mintues, then scrub with soapy water. The organic material cleans off very easily. Beats a lot of scraping. Hydrogen Peroxide is a good disinfectant and will remove a lot of the oocysts if in a heavy concentration (30% or so...so you want a heavy suds) then allowed to stand for 20 to 30 minutes.

It's a very good disinfectant for feed bowls and water dispensers. Let sit for 20 minutes or so in the H2O2 bucket of water.

LofMc