It is. Sad that folks go out of their way to try and make folks that weary, isn't it?
Please help me understand meat eaters not wanting to process a chicken!
- Thread starter ChickenCanoe
- Start date
Agree Beekissed.
I am "tough" enough to slit my chickens throats because I am sensitive enough to put their needs first. It's not fulfilling for a chicken to spend it's life in a packed warehouse. It's scary going to the processing plant. I probably wouldn't eat meat if I didn't raise it myself. But I do, my family likes meat, they like eggs. I could order layers for eggs and not worry about it. But I'm not tough enough to do that knowing for each one I buy her brother was likely ground up alive, sorry. So I hatch my own. And on the rare occasion a good home comes along for the extra boys. But the homes where they get sick, bullied, picked off by predators, or maybe even eaten there, after going through some or all of the above are far more common. I don't gave the time or means to screen and do home visits, etc, so there's a chance that bird has to take. I suppose if I were tougher, it wouldn't bother me. Or I could just keep them all. Let them terrorize each other and every other living thing here. More than likely kill or hurt the hens. I could build them their own pen, keep them locked up in there forever. Then they wouldn't hurt the girls, but they'd hurt each other. Maybe a life in solitary confinement would be kinder? I could even load them up and take them to a processor. Why not let their last moments be filled with fear, is that what a "softhearted" person would do?
The only solution I have been able to come up with and be able to live with my decisions is to give my birds a happy fulfilling life. For some a short one, but they never have a bad day in their lives until the last few moments. They were known,treated with respect, recognized as individuals ,and loved. I wish I were a tougher person so I could just buy chicken ,without a second thought as to what I'm supporting. I don't think everyone should have to kill their own food. Just know where it comes from and how it got there, and that a mcnugget was a chicken once upon a time. IMO, it's a lot more "tough" to buy KFC. Especially if you do know how most chicken is treated, and even more so if you actually own and like chickens in general.
I am "tough" enough to slit my chickens throats because I am sensitive enough to put their needs first. It's not fulfilling for a chicken to spend it's life in a packed warehouse. It's scary going to the processing plant. I probably wouldn't eat meat if I didn't raise it myself. But I do, my family likes meat, they like eggs. I could order layers for eggs and not worry about it. But I'm not tough enough to do that knowing for each one I buy her brother was likely ground up alive, sorry. So I hatch my own. And on the rare occasion a good home comes along for the extra boys. But the homes where they get sick, bullied, picked off by predators, or maybe even eaten there, after going through some or all of the above are far more common. I don't gave the time or means to screen and do home visits, etc, so there's a chance that bird has to take. I suppose if I were tougher, it wouldn't bother me. Or I could just keep them all. Let them terrorize each other and every other living thing here. More than likely kill or hurt the hens. I could build them their own pen, keep them locked up in there forever. Then they wouldn't hurt the girls, but they'd hurt each other. Maybe a life in solitary confinement would be kinder? I could even load them up and take them to a processor. Why not let their last moments be filled with fear, is that what a "softhearted" person would do?
The only solution I have been able to come up with and be able to live with my decisions is to give my birds a happy fulfilling life. For some a short one, but they never have a bad day in their lives until the last few moments. They were known,treated with respect, recognized as individuals ,and loved. I wish I were a tougher person so I could just buy chicken ,without a second thought as to what I'm supporting. I don't think everyone should have to kill their own food. Just know where it comes from and how it got there, and that a mcnugget was a chicken once upon a time. IMO, it's a lot more "tough" to buy KFC. Especially if you do know how most chicken is treated, and even more so if you actually own and like chickens in general.
- May 24, 2013
- 406
- 89
- 101
I managed to read about 5 pages of this thread.....
It's incredible that people have such a hard time with the fact that eating a chicken means it has to die.
While I did find the story about the lady doing shots entertaining, fact of the matter is if your going to do it make sure you do it right. First time is always the worst in most anything you do, learn from it and move on.
Society as as a whole has become completely illogical, some of the responses to this thread prove this. Nobody wants responsibility for the killing, like somehow that absolves them. I say you don't want things to die or choose to ignore the fact they do, yet you drive your car down the road killing thousands and thousands of insects every day.
The response is always the same"that's different"
Fact is dead is dead there's no difference, I had a family purchase a 1/4 beef and right before slaughter I received a txt asking about the breed and condition of the cows. I went out to the pasture called the steers over and took a picture, which I promptly sent to her. This one in fact:
The response I received was one of the most ridiculous and insane things I've ever seen. It went something like this:
OMG you didn't have to send me a picture! Now that I've seen it I won't be able to eat it!!
She did still buy her 1/4 and fed it to her 4 teenagers and husband, and to this day has yet to take a single bite. This is a well educated very nice lady who drives by cows on a daily basis, sees them in pictures at the store yet refuses to eat the highest quality food in her entire house because I sent her a picture??? I even told her I would make sure she got a 1/4 from a different animal, made no difference.
I can't make sense of people's insanity.
It's incredible that people have such a hard time with the fact that eating a chicken means it has to die.
While I did find the story about the lady doing shots entertaining, fact of the matter is if your going to do it make sure you do it right. First time is always the worst in most anything you do, learn from it and move on.
Society as as a whole has become completely illogical, some of the responses to this thread prove this. Nobody wants responsibility for the killing, like somehow that absolves them. I say you don't want things to die or choose to ignore the fact they do, yet you drive your car down the road killing thousands and thousands of insects every day.
The response is always the same"that's different"
Fact is dead is dead there's no difference, I had a family purchase a 1/4 beef and right before slaughter I received a txt asking about the breed and condition of the cows. I went out to the pasture called the steers over and took a picture, which I promptly sent to her. This one in fact:
The response I received was one of the most ridiculous and insane things I've ever seen. It went something like this:
OMG you didn't have to send me a picture! Now that I've seen it I won't be able to eat it!!
She did still buy her 1/4 and fed it to her 4 teenagers and husband, and to this day has yet to take a single bite. This is a well educated very nice lady who drives by cows on a daily basis, sees them in pictures at the store yet refuses to eat the highest quality food in her entire house because I sent her a picture??? I even told her I would make sure she got a 1/4 from a different animal, made no difference.
I can't make sense of people's insanity.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #285
True on the hormones. True that no broilers are raised in cages.
False on antibiotics being rarely used in commercial production. Using antibiotics and arsenic is the rule in large scale production rather than the exception. It has been this way for decades. Arsenic has just been banned in a few cases in the last couple years. Yet now that arsenic is banned, antibiotics are not only allowed but essential to raise chickens in an intensive manner.
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/foodanddri...ens-contain-cancer-causing-arsenic/ar-AA8cWca
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/b...drugs-used-in-poultry-and-pig-feeds.html?_r=0
http://www.kcet.org/living/food/the...y-the-way-theres-arsenic-in-your-chicken.html
Antibiotics have long been used to knock down pathogens but then it was discovered that they enhanced growth so the incentive to continue remained. Use was approved without veterinarian prescription in both the US and Europe since the 1950s,
http://www.udel.edu/chem/C465/senior/fall97/feed/present.html
http://ps.oxfordjournals.org/content/86/11/2466.long
Bambi syndrome and insanity is a good identifier.
In our competitive society, this is the norm. We been trained to tell our kids that they are brighter, faster, better, more talented and sweeter than any other child on the planet, just to keep from damaging their self esteem. The problem is that they get all this praise for simply existing - for breathing. They don't have to do the hard work of earning that praise - it's "owed" to them. The result is that they get out into the real world and find themselves surrounded by people who are "brighter, faster, better, more talented and sweeter than any other child on the planet" and they are suddenly not superior, but average. So they have to "esteem" themselves to the point where they become so much more "morally superior" that they have to keep that going somehow. The easiest way to do that is to drag the people around them down. Belittle them. Demonize them. Anything to keep that moral high ground. "I'm better than you because_________________(fill in the blank).
I have a grand daughter-in-law I love dearly. She was married to my grandson, who tragically died in a car accident almost 3 years ago. She is a strict vegan, to the point where shortly after they were married Grampa sent his annual box of homemade peanut brittle to Austin for them both to enjoy. Austin's wife didn't enjoy it - she wouldn't even try it. She didn't know if it was made with real butter. Extreme? Maybe to some, but that's just her. She lives her convictions every day. She sees no line drawn between meat wrapped in plastic in a grocery store and meat processed at home. The difference is that she doesn't force her convictions down anyone's throat. She just goes about her business quietly and lets everyone else do the same. When they were first married, Austin worked at Burger King, for crying out loud. It can be done, if we teach our kids that their way isn't the only way, and that in order to gain respect they must first learn to give it. That means in all things, not just in the "cause of the day". If they want to use meat and animal products, they have that right, but waving a burger in front of someone who simply can't tolerate the idea goes too far. If they want to shun meat, they have that right, but they'd better understand that not everyone shares that mindset. If they don't mind eating store bought meat but have a real problem with those of us who process our own, that's fine with me, too. But they'd better understand that if they come at us home processors with razor sharp tongues and moral superiority, they'd might look back at their ancestry and know that most of those folks were raised on home grown meat and eggs rather than store bought. Does that mean that they should not honor the memory of Great- Gramma Whatshername? And would they look at Great Gramma Whatshername and call her barbaric or a murderer? I don't think so.
This argument is old. It's been hashed and rehashed to death. One side is rarely going to change the minds of the other side. Meat, no meat, commercially processed, home processed - what difference does it make as long as each individual makes their choice and leaves the others alone? My "rights" end where your toes begin.
I have a grand daughter-in-law I love dearly. She was married to my grandson, who tragically died in a car accident almost 3 years ago. She is a strict vegan, to the point where shortly after they were married Grampa sent his annual box of homemade peanut brittle to Austin for them both to enjoy. Austin's wife didn't enjoy it - she wouldn't even try it. She didn't know if it was made with real butter. Extreme? Maybe to some, but that's just her. She lives her convictions every day. She sees no line drawn between meat wrapped in plastic in a grocery store and meat processed at home. The difference is that she doesn't force her convictions down anyone's throat. She just goes about her business quietly and lets everyone else do the same. When they were first married, Austin worked at Burger King, for crying out loud. It can be done, if we teach our kids that their way isn't the only way, and that in order to gain respect they must first learn to give it. That means in all things, not just in the "cause of the day". If they want to use meat and animal products, they have that right, but waving a burger in front of someone who simply can't tolerate the idea goes too far. If they want to shun meat, they have that right, but they'd better understand that not everyone shares that mindset. If they don't mind eating store bought meat but have a real problem with those of us who process our own, that's fine with me, too. But they'd better understand that if they come at us home processors with razor sharp tongues and moral superiority, they'd might look back at their ancestry and know that most of those folks were raised on home grown meat and eggs rather than store bought. Does that mean that they should not honor the memory of Great- Gramma Whatshername? And would they look at Great Gramma Whatshername and call her barbaric or a murderer? I don't think so.
This argument is old. It's been hashed and rehashed to death. One side is rarely going to change the minds of the other side. Meat, no meat, commercially processed, home processed - what difference does it make as long as each individual makes their choice and leaves the others alone? My "rights" end where your toes begin.
Quote:
And from the FDA website.....
Quote: Steroid Hormone Implants Used for Growth in Food-Producing Animals
Since the 1950s, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved a number of steroid hormone drugs for use in beef cattle and sheep, including natural estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and their synthetic versions. These drugs increase the animals’ growth rate and the efficiency by which they convert the feed they eat into meat. The FDA approves these drugs only after information and/or studies have shown that the food from the treated animals is safe for people to eat, and that the drugs do not harm the treated animal or the environment. The drugs also have to work as intended.
These steroid hormone drugs are typically formulated as pellets that are placed under the skin on the back side of the animal’s ear. The pellets dissolve slowly under the skin and do not require removal. The ears of the treated animals are discarded at slaughter and not used for human food. Using scientific data, FDA establishes the acceptable safe limits for hormones in meat. A safe level for human consumption is a level of drug in the meat that would be expected to have no harmful effect in humans based on extensive scientific study and review.
All approved implant products have a zero day withdrawal. This means that the meat from the animal is safe for humans to eat at any time after the animal is treated.
Naturally-Occurring Hormones
Some of the approved drugs are naturally produced throughout life in people and animals, such as estradiol (estrogen), progesterone, and testosterone. These natural hormones are necessary for normal development, growth, and reproduction. People are not at risk from eating food from animals treated with these drugs because the amount of additional hormone following drug treatment is very small compared with the amount of natural hormones that are normally found in the meat of untreated animals and that are naturally produced in the human body.
Synthetic Hormones
Some of the approved drugs are synthetic versions of the natural hormones, such as trenbolone acetate and zeranol. Just like the natural hormone implants, before FDA approved these drugs, FDA required information and/or toxicological testing in laboratory animals to determine safe levels in the animal products that we eat (edible tissues). Furthermore, FDA required that the manufacturers demonstrate that the amount of hormone left in each edible tissue after treatment is below the appropriate safe level. As described above, a safe level is a level which would be expected to have no harmful effect in humans.
No steroid hormones are approved for growth purposes in dairy cattle, veal calves, pigs, or poultry. All of the steroid hormone growth-promoting drugs are available for over-the-counter purchase in the U.S. and are generally given by the livestock producer at specific stages of the animals’ growth.
Additional Information
Information about approved hormonal implant products can be found in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Title 21, Parts 522 and 556. Copies of the CFR may be found at your local public or university library and are for sale from the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, DC 20402. In addition, the Code of Federal Regulations may be found on the Internet.
Soy proteins in the poultry feeds can enhance their naturally occurring hormones, causing them to be present in the meat in higher levels and also enhancing laying performance.
Quote: Estrogen in chicken comes mainly from feed
Some may find the study results surprising with respect to chicken since currently there no hormones approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for poultry. However, estrogen may be introduced in the form of soy protein and animal protein meal in chicken feed and possibly other sources. Based on the available evidence, breast cancer patients, survivors and those at high risk should consider avoiding beef and pork and limited their poultry consumption to organically grown birds, preferably raised without soy-based feed and in humane conditions.
And from the FDA website.....
Quote: Steroid Hormone Implants Used for Growth in Food-Producing Animals
Since the 1950s, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved a number of steroid hormone drugs for use in beef cattle and sheep, including natural estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and their synthetic versions. These drugs increase the animals’ growth rate and the efficiency by which they convert the feed they eat into meat. The FDA approves these drugs only after information and/or studies have shown that the food from the treated animals is safe for people to eat, and that the drugs do not harm the treated animal or the environment. The drugs also have to work as intended.
These steroid hormone drugs are typically formulated as pellets that are placed under the skin on the back side of the animal’s ear. The pellets dissolve slowly under the skin and do not require removal. The ears of the treated animals are discarded at slaughter and not used for human food. Using scientific data, FDA establishes the acceptable safe limits for hormones in meat. A safe level for human consumption is a level of drug in the meat that would be expected to have no harmful effect in humans based on extensive scientific study and review.
All approved implant products have a zero day withdrawal. This means that the meat from the animal is safe for humans to eat at any time after the animal is treated.
Naturally-Occurring Hormones
Some of the approved drugs are naturally produced throughout life in people and animals, such as estradiol (estrogen), progesterone, and testosterone. These natural hormones are necessary for normal development, growth, and reproduction. People are not at risk from eating food from animals treated with these drugs because the amount of additional hormone following drug treatment is very small compared with the amount of natural hormones that are normally found in the meat of untreated animals and that are naturally produced in the human body.
Synthetic Hormones
Some of the approved drugs are synthetic versions of the natural hormones, such as trenbolone acetate and zeranol. Just like the natural hormone implants, before FDA approved these drugs, FDA required information and/or toxicological testing in laboratory animals to determine safe levels in the animal products that we eat (edible tissues). Furthermore, FDA required that the manufacturers demonstrate that the amount of hormone left in each edible tissue after treatment is below the appropriate safe level. As described above, a safe level is a level which would be expected to have no harmful effect in humans.
No steroid hormones are approved for growth purposes in dairy cattle, veal calves, pigs, or poultry. All of the steroid hormone growth-promoting drugs are available for over-the-counter purchase in the U.S. and are generally given by the livestock producer at specific stages of the animals’ growth.
Additional Information
Information about approved hormonal implant products can be found in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Title 21, Parts 522 and 556. Copies of the CFR may be found at your local public or university library and are for sale from the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, DC 20402. In addition, the Code of Federal Regulations may be found on the Internet.
Soy proteins in the poultry feeds can enhance their naturally occurring hormones, causing them to be present in the meat in higher levels and also enhancing laying performance.
Quote: Estrogen in chicken comes mainly from feed
Some may find the study results surprising with respect to chicken since currently there no hormones approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for poultry. However, estrogen may be introduced in the form of soy protein and animal protein meal in chicken feed and possibly other sources. Based on the available evidence, breast cancer patients, survivors and those at high risk should consider avoiding beef and pork and limited their poultry consumption to organically grown birds, preferably raised without soy-based feed and in humane conditions.
I managed to read about 5 pages of this thread.....
It's incredible that people have such a hard time with the fact that eating a chicken means it has to die.
While I did find the story about the lady doing shots entertaining, fact of the matter is if your going to do it make sure you do it right. First time is always the worst in most anything you do, learn from it and move on.
Society as as a whole has become completely illogical, some of the responses to this thread prove this. Nobody wants responsibility for the killing, like somehow that absolves them. I say you don't want things to die or choose to ignore the fact they do, yet you drive your car down the road killing thousands and thousands of insects every day.
The response is always the same"that's different"
Fact is dead is dead there's no difference, I had a family purchase a 1/4 beef and right before slaughter I received a txt asking about the breed and condition of the cows. I went out to the pasture called the steers over and took a picture, which I promptly sent to her. This one in fact:
The response I received was one of the most ridiculous and insane things I've ever seen. It went something like this:
OMG you didn't have to send me a picture! Now that I've seen it I won't be able to eat it!!
She did still buy her 1/4 and fed it to her 4 teenagers and husband, and to this day has yet to take a single bite. This is a well educated very nice lady who drives by cows on a daily basis, sees them in pictures at the store yet refuses to eat the highest quality food in her entire house because I sent her a picture??? I even told her I would make sure she got a 1/4 from a different animal, made no difference.
I can't make sense of people's insanity.
this is my mother! She cannot believe that I raise our meat and we process the chickens ourselves. I mentioned I was looking into getting rabbits and she half freaked out at the thought of us killing the "sweet cute fluffy bunny". And she would not eat any pork from one of the pigs I had that she "met". She is ok with store bought meat because she's never had to see the animal :/
I raise our meat because I want to know how it was raised. I give my animals the best life I can, they are spoiled and able to be what they are. Chickens out in the grass eating bugs, enjoying the sun. They are happy and healthy and their end is as quick and painless as we can make it. I am constantly thankful for what they provide and try to show them that while they are here.
saybella
In the Brooder
- Mar 27, 2015
- 13
- 1
- 26
I would like to weigh in on this! I am actually a very strict vegetarian (vegan when I go out). I never eat meat or dairy, but I will eat eggs from hens that I actually know. In other words, I only eat eggs from home. When I first decided to become vegan, it was on principle to boycott factory farming. I believe animals should live a decent life, afforded their instincts before they die. I feel it's the least we can do for them in exchange for the food they provide us. That being said: I whole-heartedly believe in the sentiment of the original forum post.
My brother is pretty much my opposite! He raises and slaughters all of his own meat (beef, pork, turkey, chicken, etc...) and I have a lot of respect for him for doing that. His animals have a good upbringing, and are treated well, and then when it's time, they provide food for his family. I believe that most of us on this forum treat our animals well, otherwise we probably wouldn't join groups about raising chickens!
I however, can NOT kill an animal, it just isn't in me. And because of that, I feel that I don't have the right to eat meat, so I abstain. I feel that people who eat meat, but want to pretend a fairy godmother brought them a steak, instead of an animal that gave it's life probably shouldn't be eating meat. So the irony is that as a vegan, I can still accept people eating meat when they are able to raise and slaughter their own, and accept everything that is associated with meat and it's source. So that is my two-cents on the matter!
My brother is pretty much my opposite! He raises and slaughters all of his own meat (beef, pork, turkey, chicken, etc...) and I have a lot of respect for him for doing that. His animals have a good upbringing, and are treated well, and then when it's time, they provide food for his family. I believe that most of us on this forum treat our animals well, otherwise we probably wouldn't join groups about raising chickens!
I however, can NOT kill an animal, it just isn't in me. And because of that, I feel that I don't have the right to eat meat, so I abstain. I feel that people who eat meat, but want to pretend a fairy godmother brought them a steak, instead of an animal that gave it's life probably shouldn't be eating meat. So the irony is that as a vegan, I can still accept people eating meat when they are able to raise and slaughter their own, and accept everything that is associated with meat and it's source. So that is my two-cents on the matter!
- Thread starter
- #290
@saybella
Not that it matters but I like that attitude.
I once read something that said people should have a license to eat meat. And they should have to qualify for that license by raising, killing, processing and cooking the animal.
If you caught a fish, killed and gutted the fish and then prepared it, you got a license to eat fish - and so forth. Raise, kill and butcher a steer, you get a license to eat beef.
The author said, if that was the way of the world, there would be a lot more vegetarians.
Not that it matters but I like that attitude.
I once read something that said people should have a license to eat meat. And they should have to qualify for that license by raising, killing, processing and cooking the animal.
If you caught a fish, killed and gutted the fish and then prepared it, you got a license to eat fish - and so forth. Raise, kill and butcher a steer, you get a license to eat beef.
The author said, if that was the way of the world, there would be a lot more vegetarians.
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