Please Help, sick chickins, need advice.

[MyCoop]

this is kind of long but here goes.

A few months ago (spring) I had a rooster that got a swollen eye. What you would call a donut swelling around the eye. I have a lot of roos and it was spring with not so many ladies and hormones were raging. I assumed it was an injury due to all the fighting. Although they fight it's not serious. Usually missing feathers and some small abrasions to their combs. Nevertheless it seems to have greatly improved with no help from me.

I decided to try hatching eggs for the first time this year as well as my usual raising chicks from breeders/hatcheries. Unfortunately I have been mostly unsuccessful with the hatching of the shipped eggs. Let me start by saying I have a brinsea and temp is rock solid in that thing. The problem seems to be just the fact that the eggs are shipped and some humidity issues. Here's where things went from bad to worse.

A few of the chicks I hatched, some who were assisted in their hatching, were being brooded together. They came from various places and hatched at different times about a week apart. I have a second brinsea I use for hatching. I went a little crazy and got a few chicks on a whim from an online auction site. They arrived and I put them in the brooder with the other chicks even though theese chicks were much bigger. All seemed ok at first.

Then one of the chicks died that was from shipped eggs. Although it was doing fine up untill that point I suspected it would die as it had a partially unabsorbed yolk sac that dried up and I was hoping would fall off, but I assume that chick died due to complications of that problem. Anyway I had a few other chicks that hatched from my own eggs not shipped eggs in the brooder as well. Then one by one they died. Then I noticed some of the oldest chicks from hatched eggs had swollen faces, mostly the eyes. The week younger chicks from hatched eggs were doing poorly. One was gasping and squeezing at the same time. I thought for sure it would be dead in hours. They were not coughing or sneezing and had nothing coming from their nose and mouth. Their eyes seemed slightly watery.

I went online to look up what I could. I learned all about CRD Or MG. I took a closer look at the older chicks in the brooder the ones I got from an online auction. They eyes appeared slightly watery and one had a few bubbles in the corner. The bubbles were gone the next day. Again no sneezing or coughing or other discharge. The one set of chicks that was doing poorly were assisted hatch and the bellies liked dark with a hard not in one of them. I was thinking mushy chick disease. Well the one that had been gasping lived and improved. Although did not appear to be thriving, non did. The other set sill had swollen eyes.

Then when I went to my main flock and noticed one hen who had a donut swelling around the eye. She was laying eggs still. Every day I check them and notice another with swelling. No coughing or sneezing just eyes. No eye bubbles. I called Cornell and a local vet and was told 2 different things. Basically the vet said that I could never sell eggs or meat from chickens treated with antibiotics and to cull any sick birds as his best advice. Cornell said best to treat with antibiotics and eggs are good after so many days this is common and a results of or recent crazy weather.

Then one of my 8 week old chicks started gurguling with no other symptom. I isolated him Thursday the day I noticed the gurguling and he passed Friday night. Friday I noticed one of my hens in the main flock had gurguling sound. I later discovered she went under the coop instead of in it for the night. Then I did not see her. I saw she was still under the coop. I figured she passed. I went to get her and she is still alive so I left her alone. Funny thing is a Roo crawled under there with her. I don't really know why.

Now one of the chicks in my 8 week old flock seems sick. Wings seem low, lethargic, not eating but drinking a lot. Again no sneezing or coughing or discharge yet. The one chick that had originally been gasping and improved in the brooder passed last night.

It's obvious I have something contagious and possibly and most likely respiratory in nature going on here. We try to practice bio security but I have young children and they love to sneak a pet at one chicken the off to the next pen. Also I got chicks and put them directly with other I already had. My questions are, should I cull everyone? Should I cull the brooder chicks. Do I have to cull the 8 week olds. Should I give the 8 week olds antibiotics as a preventative measure for the 8 week olds that still seem healthy? Should I send a bird out for a necropsy?

I want to do the right thing but from what I heard MG is in the environment and unless you keep your birds indoors there are most likely going to be exposed at some point. Most hatcheries carry it and NPIP does not test for it. In fact if your birds don't have mg and you get a new bird that does all your birds get sick wile the new ones stay healthy or your birds can have it and get new birds sick and you think you were sold sick birds when really it's your birds that were sick. If you have it and you get broilers from a M G free facility they will get sick and die at your place so really you want a M G positive flock just ones strong enought to not have ever shown symptoms. Like they are immune. Someone please tell me wha t your opinions are on what I need to do and tell me if I have misinterpreted any of my research. Thank you.

 

[MyCoop]

Ok, no one responded yet so I made a few phone calls. I spoke with Cornell, a local vet, the state vet and a poultry expert.
It sounds as if I have MG in my flock. I am noticing symptoms in most of my main flock. Just to put it out there they have some live and mites that I was about to treat before all this happened. That I'm sure is a stressor that is lowering their immune system. I Was also in the middle of a massive coop clean out that got put on hold due to rain and is still on hold due to this illness.

I get the gist of MG and I'm not even positive that's what's going on as none of the birds have a discharge. I did a necropsy on a 10 weeker that died after 1 day of showing lethargic behavior not eating but drinking a lot. His kidneys were huge and resembled brains. He had no discharge. I'm going to treat the rest of my 10 weekers with Tylan in their water. They are showing no signs of illness but we're in with the one that died. The one that died was seperated when I noticed symptoms.

I am thinking of culling any flock member that is showing signs and many treating those that are not. Right now they are just for my own food and eggs but the 10 weekers were being raised for 4- h and for breeding. I'm told that MG is common amoung the birds at shows and it is not required that the be free of it to be shown. I was also told that most of the leading hatcheries ar MG positive. My thoughts are most people who are buying from backyard breeders already have a few hatchery birds and just want a few more layers. They will most likely already be carrying MG and if not will become positive at some time in their lives.

Selling MG free birds into a MG positive ( most people don't know they are positive) flock will most likely result in the MG free birds becoming sick and then the seller would look bad as it will most likely be interpreted as the seller selling sick birds. Or it could be the other way around.

My point is if most people get from hatcheries who have it and most people who sell extra chicks don't know they have it. Why is it so bad to sell chicks or eggs if your birds have been healthy. If you cull the weaker ones that show signs but keep the carriers that never did and "breed resistance" why is that bad?

I was totally ready to do the cull the whole flock thing, but what's the point if it's so difficult to get MG free birds, you have to pay out the butt to test every month and then a mouse can run through the pen and you have to cull again.or If You end up getting MG from a MG free facility because they tested a month ago and picked it up then.

The majority of the people have the herpes virus (cold sores ) , some of those people get the cold sores some never do. I'm leaning toward the mind set to keep birds that appear healthy for breeding. Cull those who show symptoms for weak immune systems. I would rather have a M G positive flock that never showed symptoms then a negative flock that gets destroyed because a bird poops in their run. Also these birds are for my families enjoyment so dressing up in hazmat suits kind of ruins the experience IMO.