Please help us newbies understand shows

[k0r1nag]

Quote:
WOW- that is pretty tough. And yet, the reason I am showing is in order to learn about the quality of my birds and what to look for, so if judges do not disqualify or give strong comments, then how will I ever learn. Again, I am not interested in being a top winner, I just want to raise a few really nice quality chicks every year for my own enjoyment and education.

Thanks for the insight.

The absolutely best way to learn, is learn enough to get someone to let you clerk for a judge. Some judges write very little on the cards, but talk non-stop to their clerk. I've clerked at our State Fair and the judges will answer many questions and show you things you'd never get to see otherwise.

Just get a copy of your APA standard and read and study. It's the best way.

Good luck with your birds.

Deb

Thanks! I have a standard and have read it several times, but without seeing first-hand samples, it is hard to understand what is meant by some of the descriptions. Being a clerk is a wonderful suggestion, though. The judge did talk non-stop to his clerk while he was judging our birds so we heard a lot of good information as we were all standing quietly nearby as he was working. What does it take to learn to be a clerk? This is definitely something I think would be worthwhile for me to work toward as a goal.

 

[debs_flock]

Quote:
Yup, I can't tell you how many times I've had a judge say............."You wanna see a......." and show me some obscure abnormality or something. In order to clerk, you just have to understand the basics of the "outline" of a show
Class placement
Best/reserve variety (if applicable)
Best/Reserve (or opposite) breed
Classification (Asiatic, Continental, etc)

And you'll need to know abbreviations for basic comments and how to write quickly.

You can probably learn best by quietly following the judge and clerk from the next bank of cages. Volunteer to help at local shows even if it's just putting out coop cards. The more you learn, the more you'll have the chance to learn.

Deb

 

[k0r1nag]

Quote:
Yup, I can't tell you how many times I've had a judge say............."You wanna see a......." and show me some obscure abnormality or something. In order to clerk, you just have to understand the basics of the "outline" of a show
Class placement
Best/reserve variety (if applicable)
Best/Reserve (or opposite) breed
Classification (Asiatic, Continental, etc)

And you'll need to know abbreviations for basic comments and how to write quickly.

You can probably learn best by quietly following the judge and clerk from the next bank of cages. Volunteer to help at local shows even if it's just putting out coop cards. The more you learn, the more you'll have the chance to learn.

Deb

Thanks again for the fabulous suggestions!

 

[cochin44]

I don't think the original questions were answered.

1- Well, technically, the judge doesn't HAVE to award BV, but they will 99% of the time.

2- No, each age and sex entrant is placed 1st through 5th. From there, only 1st place birds move on to be judged for BV and RV.
There will only be one BV and RV per variety. These two move on to be judged for BB and RB.

Yes, you can study the standard all you want, but it really takes some question asking to jugdes to find out the
quick and dirty method of spotting the good/bad points. Ever notice how few seconds they spend looking at
each bird?

 

[k0r1nag]

Quote:
Thanks for answering my initial questions so clearly. Very helpful. And I did want to ask the judge a few questions but I hated to bother him when everyone was was clammoring at him. What is the etiquette for when and where to ask a judge for pointers on your birds and breeding program?

I did have the opportunity to speak to a few of the breeders who were showing and they were kind enough to help me understand the good and bad points of a few of my birds and were very helpful in answering my general breeding questions about pairing for the best possible offspring.

 

[saladin]

Quote:
Thanks for answering my initial questions so clearly. Very helpful. And I did want to ask the judge a few questions but I hated to bother him when everyone was was clammoring at him. What is the etiquette for when and where to ask a judge for pointers on your birds and breeding program?

I did have the opportunity to speak to a few of the breeders who were showing and they were kind enough to help me understand the good and bad points of a few of my birds and were very helpful in answering my general breeding questions about pairing for the best possible offspring.

Etiquette: The aisles should be roped off so that you can't follow the judge and clerk around. You can stand in an opposite aisle but not in the same one.

You can ask the judge after the show is over. If you know him/her then at a break or lunch, but only if you know them well; they generally need a rest by then.

It is important to remember that the Standard is a BIG book. No judge is going to remember it all. You want to find a judge that raises your particular breed or has raised them in the past if you really want help. Even then the Standard is most important.

There are fads that come and go but generally speaking the Standard stays the same. I believe in breeding to the Standard regardless of the the show fads.

You'll learn, in my opinion, alot more from seeing the same breed of birds next to yours than you will from a judge. A top breeder (who may or may not be a judge) is the person to contact and get to know. A judge can generally tell you who that would be.

 

[k0r1nag]

Quote:
Thanks for answering my initial questions so clearly. Very helpful. And I did want to ask the judge a few questions but I hated to bother him when everyone was was clammoring at him. What is the etiquette for when and where to ask a judge for pointers on your birds and breeding program?

I did have the opportunity to speak to a few of the breeders who were showing and they were kind enough to help me understand the good and bad points of a few of my birds and were very helpful in answering my general breeding questions about pairing for the best possible offspring.

Etiquette: The aisles should be roped off so that you can't follow the judge and clerk around. You can stand in an opposite aisle but not in the same one.

You can ask the judge after the show is over. If you know him/her then at a break or lunch, but only if you know them well; they generally need a rest by then.

It is important to remember that the Standard is a BIG book. No judge is going to remember it all. You want to find a judge that raises your particular breed or has raised them in the past if you really want help. Even then the Standard is most important.

There are fads that come and go but generally speaking the Standard stays the same. I believe in breeding to the Standard regardless of the the show fads.

You'll learn, in my opinion, alot more from seeing the same breed of birds next to yours than you will from a judge. A top breeder (who may or may not be a judge) is the person to contact and get to know. A judge can generally tell you who that would be.

Thank you so much for your clear answers to my etiquette questions and your helpful pointers. I definitely agree that going to shows and seeing birds side by side to compare my birds against is the best way to learn. And the breeders I bought my birds from are wonderful at answering questions. The biggest issue is just the small number of entrants in the breeds and varieties I have, which makes is hard for a novice to see the differences.

And I have heard about the "fads" for different birds, so I am trying to breed for the standard. But as a newbie, it is hard to understand what is a fad and what is actually wanted in a show bird, when the specific qualities are not listed in the standard or actually go a bit against the standard. For instance, I have Polish from a breeder of beautiful birds with huge crests. The standard says the crest shouldn't obscure the vision, but in the White Crested varieties, if the crest isn't huge and totally obscuring the vision, the birds will not place well. Is this a fad or a trend that will be accepted in future versions of the SOP? In my limited understanding, this feature is necessary if you want to place well. Due to that, I only keep the crest large while I am showing the birds, then cut the front half off during the rest of the year because I am against making the birds suffer with their ridiculous crests. I haven't noticed that the crests are as obscuring in the laced varieties, but there are so few laced Polish at the shows I have been to, that is hard to know if small crests are more acceptable in these varieties.

Again, thanks to everyone for their input, showing poultry is a very interesting and confusing world for those of us just coming to it. Luckily the bird breeding community is so helpful and generous with their information, so I am excited to continue showing.

 

[risingstarpoultry]

In polish the crest should be large,bigger is better.The laced polish are not raised in as great of number as say white creasted black,so there has ben more improved creast size. this is why the laced verietys have less crest size .but this can be improved with selective breeding and raising lotts of birds to select thruogh. Hope this helps you.

 

[risingstarpoultry]

smaller crest are accepted as normal with these laced birds ,but larger is still your goal to.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

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Splash is recognized for many breeds. Out here white calls usually beat greys; don't even see many grey calls.