PLEASE look at this pic! Should I proceed?

Ks1063

In the Brooder
6 Years
Feb 6, 2013
33
3
26
Malpositioned chick. Over 12 hours and he had no progress whatsoever, just a tiny pip. Everyone else has hatched. Please look at the veins and tell me if I should proceed! I've had no bleeding so far.
 

chooks4life

Crowing
6 Years
Apr 8, 2013
4,902
678
296
Australia
There may not have been a severe bleed yet, but that looks still a little too fresh for me, I would leave it for a bit longer for the blood to move into the chick, provided its beak is clear of membrane and obstruction and it can breathe freely. Provided nothing is wrong with the chick, being left a bit longer can't harm it. That's a bleed at the edge of its wing there (though it is very minor indeed). Most of the blood looks like it's gone from the membrane.

How long to leave it for, I don't know, they shift along at their own individual rate of knots. If you feel you should act quicker, then go little bit by little bit and good luck.

It's worth considering that a malpositioning severe enough to prevent hatching can be linked to or caused by other (sometimes fatal) factors, from genetics to dietary reasons, meaning hatching it won't guarantee its survival. They are sometimes non-viable and cannot hatch unassisted due to hidden reasons and once assisted can't survive for more than two days, usually less.

In case it's genetic, it's a good idea to keep track of which chicken this is (in the event of its survival) and probably not breed it lest you get more like this. I should know... I developed a whole line that can't hatch without assistance, back when I first started. :p I'm not the only person to have done that lol.

Anyway, hope it comes out good for you and the wee chick. Best wishes.
 

Ks1063

In the Brooder
6 Years
Feb 6, 2013
33
3
26
Thank you so much for the reply! I've put him back in the bator for now. You can see my previous post, "Day 19 chicks are hatching?" to see the issues I had with temp/humidity fluctuations (93-109°). There is one other egg left with the air cell on the side of the egg. That egg has been jiggling around for 2 days, but I don't see an internal pip, and I don't hear anything. Do you know if the internal pip will be visible with the air cell longways on the side? I really appreciate the expertise from this website!
 

chooks4life

Crowing
6 Years
Apr 8, 2013
4,902
678
296
Australia
Thank you so much for the reply! I've put him back in the bator for now. You can see my previous post, "Day 19 chicks are hatching?" to see the issues I had with temp/humidity fluctuations (93-109°).

That could explain a bit! Incubators seem a bit iffy at the best of time, old pro's have terrible seasons sometimes despite all their knowledge and experience. But, 21 days is a guideline not a rule. I've had them hatch at 14 days! And 25. And 18 to 19 days is actually pretty par for the course for my chooks.

There is one other egg left with the air cell on the side of the egg. That egg has been jiggling around for 2 days, but I don't see an internal pip, and I don't hear anything. Do you know if the internal pip will be visible with the air cell longways on the side? I really appreciate the expertise from this website!

Hmm, bit unusual for a chick to hatch from an egg with a misplaced air cell. That's usually fatal to the embryo; still, it's usually fatal a lot sooner, if it's survived this far, hopefully it will hatch. But I don't know for sure. It's genetic in basis from what I've read and another thing to cull out rather than breed, generally speaking. It would be very hard to candle that, indeed. I don't know if it would be visible, sorry!

I hold them up to my ear, talk to them and gently tap the eggshell with my fingertip. A healthy hatching egg has a sort of rustling, papery, soft sound that eggs not yet pipping don't have --- they have a 'wet' or solid sound, if you know what I mean (and if you don't I'm sure you'll learn soon enough); you often hear the chick shift in the membrane too, rustling around. If it is rustling and sounding 'dry' I'd think it's fine regardless of where the air cell is. Time will tell.

Best wishes.
 

Ks1063

In the Brooder
6 Years
Feb 6, 2013
33
3
26
Oh wow! The malpositioned chick has his head partially out and is alert!

I can see and hear 'sideways air cell chick' moving around!
 

AmyLynn2374

Humidity Queen
5 Years
Oct 11, 2014
15,028
2,680
456
Gouverneur, NY
First I just want to say that 12 hours with no progress for a chick that has normaly pipped is normal, so that long for a malepositioned chick is nothing. My chicks average 12-18 hours from pip to zip. I have a couple that have been earlier and a couple later, but generally it takes over 12 hours for them to do their job. When a chick internally pips normally into the air cell, often it takes 24 hours before it makes the external pip. In this 24 hours it's body is doing things it needs to in order to be ready to hatch, transitioning to breathing outside air from the lungs, resting, any unabsorbed yolk should be absorbing, ect. Then after the external pip it can take another 24 for the vascular system between chick and egg to shut down and again, sometimes they still need more time to absorb yolk. When a chick does not pip into the air cell first and directly pips into the side of the shell and through to the outside it is missing this vital resting period and transitional period that it would have in a normal pip process, therefore it can take a malepositioned pipper an even longer time (If it is truly malepositioned.)

With all that being said in the case of your malepositioned bugger, I would keep the membranes moistened and give him time to finish if he can. It looks like you have cleared a good amount of shell for him, so if his legs are in a good position he should be able to do a little on his own. If the chick can not turn (due to the crowded end he pipped at) to finish zipping, you may need to finish zipping the shell for him. I would try that and leave the membrane intact and let him try to work his way pushing out. If he's doing a lot of struggling and no progress and the veining is clear, then I would definitely help him finish. Letting a chick get weakened by struggling in my opinion s not what you want either. That's my thought on it.
 

Ks1063

In the Brooder
6 Years
Feb 6, 2013
33
3
26
Thanks for the tips. I was going by this link: https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/step-by-step-guide-to-assisted-hatching

He pipped the pointed end of the egg. I had to make a 'hole' so he could breathe. Then I left him alone for 12 hours like the article said. He had made no progress at all. After that is when I put the photo on here. I left him alone for several more hours before I helped him zip (without removing the membrane). Then I left him in the bator again. I just checked on him and he is out!
wee.gif


The only one left is the sideways air cell egg. I hear him moving around, and I see some shadowing, but he is last. That worries me because of the air cell issue.
 

AmyLynn2374

Humidity Queen
5 Years
Oct 11, 2014
15,028
2,680
456
Gouverneur, NY
Thanks for the tips. I was going by this link: https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/step-by-step-guide-to-assisted-hatching

He pipped the pointed end of the egg. I had to make a 'hole' so he could breathe. Then I left him alone for 12 hours like the article said. He had made no progress at all. After that is when I put the photo on here. I left him alone for several more hours before I helped him zip (without removing the membrane). Then I left him in the bator again. I just checked on him and he is out!
wee.gif


The only one left is the sideways air cell egg. I hear him moving around, and I see some shadowing, but he is last. That worries me because of the air cell issue.
That's great!!!! Awesome job! I'd be worried too, but hopefully it will progress just like any other malepositioned chick (if it's developed right) if he doesn't make the air cell.
 

Ks1063

In the Brooder
6 Years
Feb 6, 2013
33
3
26
Now I'm really concerned. Over 6 hours ago, the last chick with the air cell going longways on the egg was moving inside the egg, and it was rocking the egg. I haven't seen or heard anything since. All the others hatched at 19 and 20 days except for a few slow pokes who hatched earlier today. I'm afraid he's died, but I can't turn off the incubator. I'm just hoping.
 

Ks1063

In the Brooder
6 Years
Feb 6, 2013
33
3
26
Well, I decided to open the egg at the air cell to see what was going on. I made a small hole and saw the white membrane. I gently pressed on it and got no response. I knew he didn't make it. The air cell was large and I continued peeling the shell off around it and pressing to see if there was any sign of life. There wasn't. He had not broken through the white membrane, but he was definitely dead. I wanted to see his positioning in the egg, so I peeled the papery membrane off of him. He was positioned correctly, and the yolk sac was almost completely absorbed, so I still don't know what happened. He was a perfect little chick and alive just hours ago. It breaks my heart to know that he might have been saved if I had only known he was in trouble. I wish there was some way to see more clearly what was going on inside the egg.
 

MANNA-PRO

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