Plymouth Rock thread!

[speckledhen]

Just updating with pictures of Dru, my almost 25 week old Stukel pullet out of Rex and Dottie (who is once again threatening to go broody). No eggs yet, but not expecting any until at least a couple more weeks, maybe more.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Hi folks

About the length of time it takes the heritage rocks to start laying, has anyone ever tried selective breeding to see if keeping earlier laying hens for successive generations will help ?

I am just starting a heritage flock of spprs and would eventually like to have the pullets start laying earlier than 25 weeks, instead of 30+ weeks. So far I have 8 new pullets this year and plan to keep them all, but next year I will be culling out birds that dont meet The Standard. I dont plan to show them; I want to have a flock that will lay well and produce meat birds too. I am wondering how best to keep track of the date that my pullets start laying and then the laying date of subsequent offspring. Or whether this would be a lost cause, so no need to expend the effort

I added a video of my set up to another thread yesterday (in the Pictures and Stories of my Chickens forum), if you are interested to see them.

If anyone has kept records for start of lay dates, I would like to know the outcome and whether it is worthwhile trying to raise a flock of spprs that begin laying earlier. Thank you.

Here's what I've learned. What I know about genetics wouldn't fill a teaspoon, but anyhow.

There is a gene in the heritage fowl that causes slow growth, slow feathering, etc. BUT... here's the key part. That same gene provides the vibrant, eye dizzying barring. So, if you breed for speed, like the typical hatchery, utility stock bird, yes, you can speed up feathering. You can speed up POL. You can even increase eggs per season, but you'll lose that gene and lose that tight, sharp barring. You'll get the softer, cuckoo look so common with the utility birds. I'll see if I can find a quote.

Edit: OK, here is the quote from Chris09


The gene that makes good clean barring on most any Barred bird is the slow Feathering Gene (K), the Barring gene is just a on off switch.

Barring Gene: B
Barring is a Sex-link gene that stops and starts pigment production as in feather growth to give the barring pattern as seen on Barred Rocks. The extremely narrow and sharp barring seen on the Barred Plymouth Rocks is achieved by the presence of the gene ('K') for very slow feathering growth, which allows for a lot of on/off sequences in the time it takes for a feather to grow. The same barring gene ('B') when on a rapid feathering breed gives wide, coarse, fuzzy "Cuckoo Barring" as seen on Cuckoo Marans, Cochins and other breeds. The barring gene also interacts with the gene on the E locus, all of the above examples being based on the E plus melantoics. Thus all these barring and cuckoo breeds would be self-black if they did not have the barring gene. This gene has greater pigment-restricting effect on black pigment than it does on red or gold pigment. When the barring gene is applied to the Wild Type pattern, the Crele variety is produced; and the barring on Columbian pattern combination is seen on Delaware and Rhodebars, one of the autosexing breeds.


Chris

 

[PEI chicken]

Hi Freds Hens (and indirectly Chris)
Thank you for this info which will save me time and wasted effort! I don't want to give up on pencilling to get an earlier POL.

Your genetic knowledge is a LOT greater than mine! Your teaspoons must be MUCH larger where you live

So, I will start with culling for frame type next year, and not POL. I will still keep records on each pullets POL date though, just as a matter of interest.

My 3 mature hens are not laying eggs right now. One is brooding 4 chicks that she hatched and the other two have started their moult.
I had to buy eggs yesterday

so you can understand why I want my pullets to start laying soon (which isn't going to happen).

 

[Fred's Hens]

PEI,

Here's the thing I finally came to accept, personally. Do with it what you will.

I keep two flocks. I will not, can not give up our utility flock. We need efficient growth, fast feathering, quick to POL and 280-300 eggs per pullet year to justify a small egg business my wife has. We must have feed conversion, especially in this day of rising feed costs. To have any kind of chance of making a few pennies per dozen, we have to maintain a flock of utility birds.

The heritage flock is enjoyable in so many ways. I love the preservationist, historic nature of them, their character, self sufficient attitude and regal nature.

As my brother says, they really are two different kinds of chickens.

Here's some of each. One of some BR that we breed for production and then some of the heritage birds.

 

[aoxa]

Hi Freds Hens (and indirectly Chris)
Thank you for this info which will save me time and wasted effort!  I don't want to give up on pencilling to get an earlier POL. 

Your genetic knowledge is a LOT greater than mine! Your teaspoons must be MUCH larger where you live

So, I will start with culling for frame type next year, and not POL.   I will still keep records on each pullets POL date though, just as a matter of interest.

My 3 mature hens are not laying eggs right now.  One is brooding 4 chicks that she hatched and the other two have started their moult.
I had to buy eggs yesterday so you can understand why I want my pullets to start laying soon (which isn't going to happen).

Do Pencilled Rocks go broody often?

I would aim for better quality rather than POL. I mean, there is always RSL for eggs if you need them.

Freds hens is way too modest He knows much more than he admits to!

 

[aoxa]

PEI,

Here's the thing I finally came to accept, personally.  Do with it what you will.

I keep two flocks.  I will not, can not give up our utility flock.  We need efficient growth, fast feathering, quick to POL and 280-300 eggs per pullet year to justify a small egg business my wife has.  We must have feed conversion, especially in this day of rising feed costs.  To have any kind of chance of making a few pennies per dozen, we have to maintain a flock of utility birds.  

The heritage flock is enjoyable in so many ways.  I love the preservationist, historic nature of them, their character, self sufficient attitude and regal nature.  

As my brother says, they really are two different kinds of chickens.

Here's some of each. One of some BR that we breed for production and then some of the heritage birds.  

Fred,

Do you plan on showing your heritage rocks?

 

[Fred's Hens]

aoxa, no, I don't have any intention of showing, personally. It takes time and money to show, neither which I'm willing to commit to. If those I mentor choose to be involved with that endeavor, using stock they get from me, that's fine.

 

[Fred's Hens]

For eggs, we took our Black Sex Links and the most productive Barred Rocks and have bred them for 4 generations and we're finally happy with our result. It took selecting from hundreds of chicks over almost 5 years. Here's a little pullet from this year's hatch that I'm very pleased with. She is handsome, has great, traditional body type and will lay up a storm, but her fast feathering gene, coupled with her top laying ability means she'd be DQ for lousy, hatchery style feathering at any show.

Doesn't matter. She's a utilitarian BR. Sorry, I'm a lousy photographer and don't have a decent camera.








Behind her is a production red that we also breed. Those will lay 290-300 eggs their pullet year. Sweet as can be.

 

[aoxa]

aoxa,  no, I don't have any intention of showing, personally.  It takes time and money to show, neither which I'm willing to commit to.  If those I mentor choose to be involved with that endeavor, using stock they get from me, that's fine.

I was just curious because they are so nice

Many show people in my area say that a show is the best form of advertisement. I would have to agree!

 

[speckledhen]

I have the same attitude as Fred, though I cannot keep two separate flocks. I started with utility Barred Rocks. LOVE my Rocks, barreds and Blue/Black/Splash.

When those hens started aging and dying off, I decided if I was going to repopulate my BRs, I'd get some better quality, true heritage BRs and hatched Rex and his hens from the Marvin Stukel lines. I no longer have Rex, but will again have a BR rooster, I think, when my Delaware has passed on. Dottie has been broody once and seems to be going broody again. She and her two "sisters" are just a year and a half old and going through the first big molt.

I still have two old BR hens-parents were McMurray BRs-who are over 5 1/2 years old and lay regularly, though they are starting to be plagued with arthritis, especially one who walks with a stilted gait. Then, there is Fern, who is approaching 4 years old, lays 6-7 eggs per week. She is the product of an Ideal hen and the son of a McMurray BR rooster-someone told me it was impossible for her to lay that well at her age. Well, she does.

And then I have a 2 year old BR hen who is very small in body, wonky comb, but lays a super jumbo egg you would never believe she could lay.

I have no interest in showing at all, even if I had the finest Barreds in all of the south. To me, it's just so satisfying to look out on all that eye candy. They are good layers with wonderful, calm temperaments, in addition to being stunningly beautiful.