Plymouth Rock thread!

[jdoane]

Eek! OK getting freaked out about the fatal laying issues of hatchery birds. Mine are still only 3 months so not laying yet but what should I watch for???

 

[aoxa]

Eek! OK getting freaked out about the fatal laying issues of hatchery birds. Mine are still only 3 months so not laying yet but what should I watch for???

Usually symptoms start out with lack of laying. They will go in the box and come back out but no eggs. They will get really big in the belly area (fluid build up).. They will walk funny. Eventually they get a fatal infection and the last symptoms are lethargy and off food.. Once the lethargy and lack of appetite is seen, there isn't much time (maybe a week..)

Cyn will give you a better timeline as I've only had two with this condition. One was a mutt, one was the hatchery BR I mentioned.

What age would this generally be an issue in hatchery rocks Cyn? My girls were young. I knew it was internal laying based on your description. They fit all the criteria. I did think worms may have been an issue, but after a round of treatment nothing got better. Now I would do a necropsy to confirm, but I am confident that is what they died from.

 

[speckledhen]

My first one died from EYP at just past 2 years old. When we opened her up, her abdomen was full of loose yolk. She didn't show any symptoms except one cold day she was sitting in the shade. I picked her up and looked her over but could find nothing wrong. Then a day or so later, she didn't come back from free ranging and we found her dead in her dust hole by the house and did a necropsy.

Then, one by one, they started showing symptoms-going to the nest, sitting for a long time, sometimes straining, then leaving with no egg. Then, they just quit trying. They begin to lose massive amounts of weight, though that may not be obvious unless you pick them up. Then they become very weak and just die unless you euthanize them. Some bloat up with fluid and some do not do that at all. And if you open them up, you see cheesy masses in the oviducts and/or the abdomen itself.

I had one die at a year and a half, a Wyandotte. The Wyandottes from hatcheries are terrible. All my Wyandottes died the same way and other folks have had the exact same experience with them. They're almost worse than sexlinks.

 

[my sunwolf]

My first one died from EYP at just past 2 years old. When we opened her up, her abdomen was full of loose yolk. She didn't show any symptoms except one cold day she was sitting in the shade. I picked her up and looked her over but could find nothing wrong. Then a day or so later, she didn't come back from free ranging and we found her dead in her dust hole by the house and did a necropsy.

Then, one by one, they started showing symptoms-going to the nest, sitting for a long time, sometimes straining, then leaving with no egg. Then, they just quit trying. They begin to lose massive amounts of weight, though that may not be obvious unless you pick them up. Then they become very weak and just die unless you euthanize them. Some bloat up with fluid and some do not do that at all. And if you open them up, you see cheesy masses in the oviducts and/or the abdomen itself.

I had one die at a year and a half, a Wyandotte. The Wyandottes from hatcheries are terrible. All my Wyandottes died the same way and other folks have had the exact same experience with them. They're almost worse than sexlinks.

Wow, very interesting to hear you say this. I have had the exact same problems with hatchery Wyandottes!

I do find that the hatchery birds that will have EYP or another laying problem usually do die before 3 years, and that once they make it to 3 years they are out of the woods--at least on the egg laying front.

 

[aoxa]

Wow, very interesting to hear you say this. I have had the exact same problems with hatchery Wyandottes!

I do find that the hatchery birds that will have EYP or another laying problem usually do die before 3 years, and that once they make it to 3 years they are out of the woods--at least on the egg laying front.

I've also found hatchery Wyandottes incredibly weak. Soft shelled eggs for my first one. I've raised 3 after that that just failed to grow properly. I culled every single one and swore off SLW for good.

 

[jdoane]

My first one died from EYP at just past 2 years old. When we opened her up, her abdomen was full of loose yolk. She didn't show any symptoms except one cold day she was sitting in the shade. I picked her up and looked her over but could find nothing wrong. Then a day or so later, she didn't come back from free ranging and we found her dead in her dust hole by the house and did a necropsy.

Then, one by one, they started showing symptoms-going to the nest, sitting for a long time, sometimes straining, then leaving with no egg. Then, they just quit trying. They begin to lose massive amounts of weight, though that may not be obvious unless you pick them up. Then they become very weak and just die unless you euthanize them. Some bloat up with fluid and some do not do that at all. And if you open them up, you see cheesy masses in the oviducts and/or the abdomen itself.

I had one die at a year and a half, a Wyandotte. The Wyandottes from hatcheries are terrible. All my Wyandottes died the same way and other folks have had the exact same experience with them. They're almost worse than sexlinks.

OK Officially freaking out now!

 

[Wynette]

OK Officially freaking out now!

Listen, if you have them, no reason to freak out...just do what you can to prevent laying issues. I don't know if anyone else has said this yet, so my apologies if I'm repeating. But. DO NOT allow them to grow too quickly! I think you said they're about 12 weeks now. If I were you, I would switch them from chick feed & put them on a flock raiser type of feed. By slowing their growth a wee bit, it doesn't mean they won't reach their full potential in size, it means that you COULD be preventing laying issues. Allow them to mature slowly. When they mature too quickly, they begin laying at an age that really is too young; that is when you end up with most of your laying issues, when they begin laying too young. GRanted, some things will happen if they are in the cards. But I know this helps; I buy some hatchery stock each year for layers; since I began switching them to a flock raiser feed at 12 weeks until I saw the first egg, I have had ZERO incidence of lay issues (touch wood!).

 

[speckledhen]

Don't freak out. There's NOTHING you can do to prevent internal laying. It's genetic/hormone based and no feed or any method of raising will change if it's going to happen. Just cross your fingers that yours won't go that way. You cannot "feed" them out of what is in their genetics.

I do agree that you do not want to push sexual maturity or keep them laying with artificial lighting, just let them go with their natural rhythms, but that will still not prevent internal laying--feeding lower protein grower feeds is more to prevent blow-outs (prolapses).

I keep mine on starter feed until they are "teens" approaching laying age, which is 18% protein, not the 20% of Flock Raiser. Mine are not grown out too quickly.

Flock Raiser is higher in protein than the starter/grower I give mine, Wynette (also, FR is vegetarian). True pullet grower, if you can even get it, is lower protein than starter, starter/grower, and way lower than flock raiser and that is what you are supposed to give to slow down maturation. I just can't really get that here. Pullet grower is 15% protein. So at Flock Raiser's 20% protein, that is going to speed up maturity, not slow it down.

When I consulted a PhD in poultry science while going through the thick of all of that, he said it would be best to get my stock elsewhere. And it's true that 99% of all my birds who had those issues came from the same hatchery.

I'm betting hundreds of people just find birds dead and never know they died from internal laying or EYP or cancer or whatever. They just bury them and go on with their lives, never opening it up to see what happened. It's VERY common, really, more than you realize.

 

[aoxa]

Listen, if you have them, no reason to freak out...just do what you can to prevent laying issues. I don't know if anyone else has said this yet, so my apologies if I'm repeating. But. DO NOT allow them to grow too quickly! I think you said they're about 12 weeks now. If I were you, I would switch them from chick feed & put them on a flock raiser type of feed. By slowing their growth a wee bit, it doesn't mean they won't reach their full potential in size, it means that you COULD be preventing laying issues. Allow them to mature slowly. When they mature too quickly, they begin laying at an age that really is too young; that is when you end up with most of your laying issues, when they begin laying too young. GRanted, some things will happen if they are in the cards. But I know this helps; I buy some hatchery stock each year for layers; since I began switching them to a flock raiser feed at 12 weeks until I saw the first egg, I have had ZERO incidence of lay issues (touch wood!).

I'm thinking this is where my limiting feed and forcing free ranging for the juveniles helps slow them down. I have a bunch of Red Sex Links that will be 18 weeks on Thursday and still show no signs of being ready to lay just yet. I've yet to have an egg issue with this hybrid everyone discusses egg issues with. I had a four year old layer that was still going when the fire happened. Well that's about the oldest RSL I've had, so beyond that I can't comment...


Hey look, there are barred feathers in this picture - so not really WAY off in pictures


and just for fun.. Cletus - the last BR from my original flock. He will not be used for breeding, but he is so good with the chicks that he has a place here for life (so long as he isn't suffering).

 

[catdaddyfro]

Don't freak out. There's NOTHING you can do to prevent internal laying. It's genetic/hormone based and no feed or any method of raising will change if it's going to happen.

I do agree that you do not want to push sexual maturity or keep them laying with artificial lighting, just let them go with their natural rhythms, but that will still not prevent internal laying--that is more to prevent blow-outs (prolapses).

I keep mine on starter feed until they are "teens" approaching laying age, which is 18% protein. Mine are not grown out too quickly.

Flock Raiser is higher in protein than the starter/grower I give mine, Wynette (also, it's vegetarian). True pullet grower, if you can even get it, is lower protein than starter, starter/grower, and way lower than flock raiser and that is what you are supposed to give to slow down maturation. I just can't really get that here. Pullet grower is 15% protein.

One can lower the protein levels and the growth rates by feeding a half and half mixture of starter/grower and scratch grains too.(at around the 8-12 wks mark, not before hand. Give straight starter/grower to this stage 18-22% is good) This is my feeding practice on everything anyway.(15/16%) The only time I up the ante on protein(22-26%) is during the breeding/hatching egg collecting season and this is mostly to increase the eggs laid yield, and it does increase egg and chick qualities as a side effect to a point too.

Jeff