Plymouth Rocks as meat birds ?

[Crush]

I would stick with Cornish X Rock, Cornish Giants.. whatever name your breeder calls them.

From what I read they have big, juicy breasts and legs and are basically the chicken you will get at all stores/resturuants.

 

[Mojo Chick'n]

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I guess my main goal here is self sustainability, not cost per pound.

I want to be able to breed/hatch my own meat birds, not buy them as chicks from a hatchery.

I can't breed Cornish Cross.

If I can find a chicken that is similar in size (not as big) and texture to the Cornish that I can breed here on the farm, I would rather do that.

I began this thread hoping that someone would answer that yeah, they had tried the Plymouth Rocks as meat birds and tell their experience with them - I guess no one has tried them, but I did get some great advice and info from Greyfields (thanks

).

The whole point is that I don't want to do Cornish Cross if I can avoid it. Yeah, they would taste great, they would be big and juicy, and I would have to buy chicks every time I wanted to raise them, and I'd have to buy enough to make it cost efficient and then I would have to butcher them all at once (or a small time frame) and then store the carcasses in my freezer - which I have full of cow and pig and other various goodies such as Tater Tots and Cool Whip

The longer I'd have to store the chicken in the freezer, the quality of the meat will suffer. If I could butcher at will, and not have to store as many for as long a time, then the meat would be better in the long run, and my life would be simpler without having to plan a weekend around butchering that many birds at once. I could butcher say, 5 or 6 chickens at a time, once a month, and have it done in a couple of hours, and not take up as much space in the freezer.

I raise my own cows for meat, I plan to raise my own pigs for meat once I get the facilities safely in order, and I figure that raising my own chickens for meat would be great, too.

It sort of defeats the purpose, however, if I have to buy the chicks every time from a hatchery. If I have to play by their rules of number ordered, time frames and availability - I lose, no matter how much cheaper it might be.

I just want a comparable quality chicken carcass to a Cornish Rock (smaller is fine) that I can "grow my own".

It's a game.

I like playing the game

I really like it when I win the game.

Peace -
Meri

 

[greyfields]

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Tough one. I've crossed the Cornish on my black sex links and that was by far the heaviest crosses I made excluding the crosses with broilers.

 

[greyfields]

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Sustainability in non-ruminant species is very dubious and misleading. If you are raising your own grains for them, you could vaguely call yourself sustainable. If you are not, then an enormous ammount of your $$/bag of feed is into diesel and consequential carbon emissions.

The same could be said for the day old baby chicks... but, it's obviously not the same magnitude of lbs/mile shipped.

Either way you look at it, raising poulty as it is in the US is ultimately not-sustainable and depletes more resources than it creates.

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I do this, too. It's fun. It's science. It's interesting... but 'sustainable'? Maybe. The advantages are you are selecting and breeding the birds best suited for your climate, disease resistance, etc.

I guess the point I want to impress is that it's not an either/or. There are seriously good alternatives to cornish crosses, which are bred specifically for use as broilers. They are as sustainable as raising your own (excluding only the carbon emission of shipping day old chicks). These birds will grow bigger, faster and are nothing like hte miserable turds the Cornish Crosses can be.

Again, it's not an either / or.

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You cannot breed a commercial/industrial strain. However, if you keep some broilers alive long enough to lay eggs, you can do your own hybrid X hybrids. They will not breed 'true', but they will be bigger than any purebreed cockrel... and significantly.

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And I believe you will. But, my advice really is not to have a standing flock of birds from which you breed and hatch broilers. It's easier to crop them, since you then don't have to deal with 2 separate flocks being housed and fed differently. But, it's your farm, not mine!

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I certainly have raised Barred Rocks for meat. I still have some in the freezer. I only serve those when "foodies" are coming for dinner and we make coq au vin or croquettes with them.

There simply is no purebreed of chicken that gives you a big roasting bird, with an efficient FCR and in a reasonable number of days. You may still want to breed your own, though. The keel sticks way out, the breast is narrow, they look starved. I'd never consider serving one to a customer.

I guess I've read a lot of people here, probably one per week ,who asks this same question. They want a standing flock of birds, from which they can elect to hatch eggs and do a crop of broilers. But, what they're not experienced with, though, is logistics of raising a broiler crop concurrent to a laying flock.

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This really isn't true. Age the birds 2 days in the fridge after which they will become very dry. Then vacuum seal. You easily have 6 months without issue or loss in quality. What most people do is freeze wet birds, which never ends well.


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Cool, so do I.

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It is certainly cheaper to buy chicks than to hatch your own. I thought I would be saving tons of money hatching my own geese, because they're a minimum of $8/EA plus shipping. I figured the $300 incubator would pay for itself in 1 season. When I sat down, though, and tracked my costs buyin them would have been cheaper (not that I will, but it's a good point to note).

I guess I'm throwing some advice out here which you really can't accept, though, until you've done it. So, go for it. Get yourself a dual purpose flock going and report back. Just be honest with yourself and be sure to really include your extended costs in doing so.... incubation, maintaing the laying flock, actual food consumed per pound of gain, the duration of your crop, etc. I've done this, I'm an engineer and pragmatic. I encourage you to do the same now. :0

 

[Mojo Chick'n]

Quote:
Sustainability in non-ruminant species is very dubious and misleading. If you are raising your own grains for them, you could vaguely call yourself sustainable. If you are not, then an enormous ammount of your $$/bag of feed is into diesel and consequential carbon emissions.

The same could be said for the day old baby chicks... but, it's obviously not the same magnitude of lbs/mile shipped.

Either way you look at it, raising poulty as it is in the US is ultimately not-sustainable and depletes more resources than it creates.

Quote:
I do this, too. It's fun. It's science. It's interesting... but 'sustainable'? Maybe. The advantages are you are selecting and breeding the birds best suited for your climate, disease resistance, etc.

I guess the point I want to impress is that it's not an either/or. There are seriously good alternatives to cornish crosses, which are bred specifically for use as broilers. They are as sustainable as raising your own (excluding only the carbon emission of shipping day old chicks). These birds will grow bigger, faster and are nothing like hte miserable turds the Cornish Crosses can be.

Again, it's not an either / or.

Quote:
You cannot breed a commercial/industrial strain. However, if you keep some broilers alive long enough to lay eggs, you can do your own hybrid X hybrids. They will not breed 'true', but they will be bigger than any purebreed cockrel... and significantly.

Quote:
And I believe you will. But, my advice really is not to have a standing flock of birds from which you breed and hatch broilers. It's easier to crop them, since you then don't have to deal with 2 separate flocks being housed and fed differently. But, it's your farm, not mine!

Quote:
I certainly have raised Barred Rocks for meat. I still have some in the freezer. I only serve those when "foodies" are coming for dinner and we make coq au vin or croquettes with them.

There simply is no purebreed of chicken that gives you a big roasting bird, with an efficient FCR and in a reasonable number of days. You may still want to breed your own, though. The keel sticks way out, the breast is narrow, they look starved. I'd never consider serving one to a customer.

I guess I've read a lot of people here, probably one per week ,who asks this same question. They want a standing flock of birds, from which they can elect to hatch eggs and do a crop of broilers. But, what they're not experienced with, though, is logistics of raising a broiler crop concurrent to a laying flock.

Quote:
This really isn't true. Age the birds 2 days in the fridge after which they will become very dry. Then vacuum seal. You easily have 6 months without issue or loss in quality. What most people do is freeze wet birds, which never ends well.


Quote:
Cool, so do I.

Quote:
It is certainly cheaper to buy chicks than to hatch your own. I thought I would be saving tons of money hatching my own geese, because they're a minimum of $8/EA plus shipping. I figured the $300 incubator would pay for itself in 1 season. When I sat down, though, and tracked my costs buyin them would have been cheaper (not that I will, but it's a good point to note).

I guess I'm throwing some advice out here which you really can't accept, though, until you've done it. So, go for it. Get yourself a dual purpose flock going and report back. Just be honest with yourself and be sure to really include your extended costs in doing so.... incubation, maintaing the laying flock, actual food consumed per pound of gain, the duration of your crop, etc. I've done this, I'm an engineer and pragmatic. I encourage you to do the same now. :0

Great points, I appreciate your input.

I guess it wouldn't be purely self sustaining, since I would have to buy feed.

I am set up for many different flocks - I have 4 seperate coops. (I really like raising chickens, LOL poor hubby is my builder, so the cost is kept down a little). It will be a bit of a pain, but not too bad, since I have different pure breds I am keeping seperate right now. I'll just have to juggle some birds around.

The cow we raised was a lot cheaper than store bought - and oh so much better! all told it cost us 2.79 per pound for the meat - which doesn't sound like much savings until you figure that hamburger has been running (locally) for 2.49 a pound, and steaks and some other cuts (which I can never afford to buy- T-bones, and the like) are up to and above 10 bucks a pound. (that is cost of cow, cost of food and processing).

I look forward to raising our own pigs rather than buying them at livestock lots or from other farmers. We're going to raise more cows next time, so we can have one or two and sell a couple. Ditto with the pigs.

The look of the carcass isn't as important, as long as the meat is good. I intend to cut them up anyway, and not actually use them as "broilers/roasters". I don't know anyone who eats the back, so I intend to remove the breasts from the bones (and skin them) - package those seperately. Make a package of thighs and legs, and a package of wings. The cut up chicken will store smaller, anyway, than a whole chicken. The back and rest of the bird I'll probably cook off for broth and the like, and can that.

Oh, and don't feel badly for me being stubborn, it isn't a failure of your power of logic, it has been great to hear your point of view on this.

Others have tried and failed, also - I got guineas after everyone told me not to

Ya want to buy some guineas? Cheap?

LOL -
Meri

 

[monster1]

don't get me wrong i love my dp birds. i have rir's, barred rocks, delewares, and buff orps. i also raised a couple of cornish x's as an experiment. bought the dp's and the cornish x's at the same time. the cornish grew 3-4 times as fast on the same amount of feed and same amount of time. raising dp's for meat just isn't as cost effective as as raising cornish x. but if you free range your barred rocks for a couple of hours and then feed them their rations, you may be able meet the same cost effectiveness as if you only pen raised those cornish x's. jmho.

 

[Mojo Chick'n]

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Thanks for the input - I hope I didn't sound antagonistic before

I didn't intend to.

My laying chickens get to run around the yard all day, they go to bed at about dark, and stay in until I let them out again about 9 A.M. With the drought lately and end of summer the pickings haven't been as great, so they still eat a lot of feed (although I suspect the guineas have been sneaking into their coop and eating a lot of it, LOL.) I've been feeding outside, also, which accounts for some of the feed loss, because I have three hens who have decided they no longer wish to live with the other chickens, and live in the barn.

One hen was "flavor of the month" for three months running and the roo tore the feathers off the poor girl's back - they are almost all back now but she won't let the roo near her, and won't go into the coop anymore. I can't say as I blame her. I tried to seperate her before the feathers were all gone, but she didn't want to go, then - threw a fit every time I tried to take her out til I felt sorry for her.

I guess she's as stubborn as I am and had to see for herself. (she's some barred breed, not sure what, she was an auction bird.)

I'll try the Plymouth Rocks - since I can get the eggs so cheap and hatch them out myself. If it doesn't work out I am not out much money (except feed costs) and I have gained a lot of experience.

Like I said, it's a game - and it's fun to play the game

Peace -
Meri

 

[DougD]

Plymouth Rocks and Wyandottes are both on the "Arc of Taste" listings. They are supposed to have better flavor then many other breeds. You can cross the Rocks with Cornish and get a decent meat bird. Its not the same as the commercial Xrocks etc, but a decent result still.

"Rocks" are one of the breeds we raise and most of our extra roosters end up as meat birds. Usually between 18 and 22 weeks. Older than 26 weeks - they should probably go in to the stew pot.

Rock and Orpington crosses work well also.

We are going to try some of the following crossses next year:
Rock/Wyandotte
Chantecler/Wyandotte
Wyandotte/Cornish
Chantecler/Cornish
Rock/Chantecler

The look of the carcass isn't as important, as long as the meat is good. I intend to cut them up anyway, and not actually use them as "broilers/roasters". I don't know anyone who eats the back, so I intend to remove the breasts from the bones (and skin them) - package those seperately. Make a package of thighs and legs, and a package of wings. The cut up chicken will store smaller, anyway, than a whole chicken. The back and rest of the bird I'll probably cook off for broth and the like, and can that

We do this also. We seldom save whole chickens, or even breasts with the bones. It's easier and quicker just to cut them up and not even open up the insides. Legs, wings, and breast meet are how we package and freeze. Minimum space.​

 

[DougD]

If you are going to raise and keep some Rocks or Rock crosses, you will also have decent egg production from the hens.

If you want to avoid the cost and problems of incubators, consider some Orpingtons. You can cross them with the Rocks and the hens are quite often broody. Or do you have other breeds that get broody?

 

[Mojo Chick'n]

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I have some broodies - which are so much nicer than brooding them myself

I have a New Hampshire Red who hatched out some chicks earlier this summer - she was a great mama. I also have some bantam cochins, and am getting some standard cochins, I've heard they go broody easily, too.

I do like the looks of the Orpingtons, though, so I may throw in one of those somewhere along the line.

Peace -
Meri