Post Pics Of Orps/ Orpingtons HERE

[fowlman01]

The tail in most chickens is all about the feather quality....but..Cochins need soft pliable feathers so that they have the rounded tail a Cochin needs. The Orp needs stiff tail feathers to keep the tail looking good. In addition the tail covert feathers have to be tight/stiff enough to make the tail look correct. Loose feathers are not an easy thing to correct and feather quality issues have always been a problem with Orps. Even Orps that have no other breed in them, so personally I would not put anything with loose feathers in them. That is just me though..

Next to my post at this moment I see Orpington (Buff)-319...does this make it an Orp? What I'm saying is that there are Orps and then there are Orpingtons. Calling a bird an Orpington does not make it an Orpington chicken in the USA.
Here is a duck called a buff Orpington.

Jim is correct. There are several shades of buff, but only one is correct.

Walt

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

The tail in most chickens is all about the feather quality....but..Cochins need soft pliable feathers so that they have the rounded tail a Cochin needs. The Orp needs stiff tail feathers to keep the tail looking good. In addition the tail covert feathers have to be tight/stiff enough to make the tail look correct. Loose feathers are not an easy thing to correct and feather quality issues have always been a problem with Orps. Even Orps that have no other breed in them, so personally I would not put anything with loose feathers in them. That is just me though..

Next to my post at this moment I see Orpington (Buff)-319...does this make it an Orp? What I'm saying is that there are Orps and then there are Orpingtons. Calling a bird an Orpington does not make it an Orpington chicken in the USA.
Here is a duck called a buff Orpington.

Jim is correct. There are several shades of buff, but only one is correct.

Walt

Did he say I was correct?

My head just swelled!

Actually, it was not I that was correct, but the Standard of Perfection!

 

[fowlman01]

I can't tell you how much I hated to say that you were correct Jim, but you were.

Walt

 

[jeremy]

I can't tell you how much I hated to say that you were correct Jim, but you were.

Walt

 

[aveca]

walt your help and wisdome is sure welcome and often needed, especially for those of us who like to show...you are an inspiration and you keep us all grounded by the truth...i really do not see any birds in here that look like the birds we saw shown in sussex a couple years ago. i posted pics of them , and my cousin took more pics which i sent over to bill..sorry but there is no bird labled english in here that even looks remotly like those top show birds.it was like an entirely different breed. they have evolved drastically in a short time...orpington mans birds didnt even look like those in england show birds...and he is over there..his looked like an older line where you could actually see foot and leg..the ones at the bigger shows in england thier under feathers are on the ground, you occasionally see some pretty twisted toes sticking out..i dont have the pics anymore as im on a new computer, but maybe bill has kept a copy.and dave is right, they have a very wide feather when you look at them up close..the ones that had lacing, cant remember what they qre called but they are dark brown like a light lace. they have acheived an over all neatness like a picture that flows from one end to the other. but the buffs and a lot of the blacks were a bit extream, looked like their legs were pulled off and stuckion on the side, kind of took away from the overall look. a step too far maybe what might otherwise be close to perfection. skirts too long toes way too bent. but some of that flowing picture with the wide feather was there..i posted a vidio of hucules and his ladies in here too, he was the federal market champion of england. so it might suprise you what that the judges picked in the end..it was him..he is not as fluffy as some, when you get your hands down on them, you can see there is a lot of meat in there..you can see feet under there. he is massive, huge bowl shaped chest..its on utube..worth seeing what won over some of the more faddish ones. best thing to do is just travel there and look for yourself..i dont have the best descriptions..bill thinks hes a little too fluffy, but i honestly dont know they pick that guy up to take to show..hes a pony. i highly recomend to anyone looking to travel, go over there and time it for their bigger shows..

 

[ruth]

I started out with plain ole American Orps that had no real size to them. I added various degrees of "English" Orps to get the size up and make a more magnificent looking bird, (from my perspective), than what I had. I am not able to show birds because of the other constraints on my life and my time but who knows, maybe one day. In the meantime, as with all of my breeds, I do try and breed a bird that can be shown in APA shows. I might be shooting myself in the foot by mixing in some "English" birds but I'm liking what I'm seeing as far as size increase but I do want to stick as close as possible to APA SOP so that others can buy and show or buy and breed my birds and continue working on them. I did sell a young cockerl to someone last year that won Best of Breed in the APA show she entered it in but I know one show does not a show-bird make. So....I'm honestly asking for comments (hopefully more good than bad - LOL) of these two young cockerels - both from this summer's hatch. From what I've been reading and learning SOP doesn't want a curved tail???? At least I think that's the way I'm understanding the most recent posts. I do read the SOP on all breeds that I raise but somewhere between reading it and envisioning it, I loose something. Sometimes what I read and envision isn't what I see when I see photos that supposedly show a good specimen of the SOP. I'm still working on Black Copper Marans and I've read the SOP a million times. Someone posted that breeders should go to shows and I know that would really help me - to see birds in person - but unfortunately that's not in my ability right now.

Walt, I would treasure your comments on these two cockerels. Should I use one or the other or both or neither in a breeding program for APA SOP Orpingtons? Again, still working on my line that seriously needed some increase in size. This year I have only my largest birds in breeder pens. But, please do excuse the mess of the pens and the birds. It's our rainy season and it hasn't stopped raining for several weeks. The pens are a mess, the birds are a mess, there are tarps covering everything just to try and give them some dry spots outside of the coop but they are staying wet and muddy.













Both of them, side by side, where you can see the tails from their backside:



Thanks for any helpful comments.

 

[OSUman]

Walt I know you are busy but I am curious if you have been able to read the UK standard?

Thanks for the kind words. I currently don't raise Orps, but have for many years. The picture in my profile is one of my birds. It is too bad that you can't really see it's head. It is a very wide head. The SOP says: Head: medium in length, broad and deep. US Orps should not have fluff that is excessive and covers the hock. You should be able to see the hock. It should also not be a fluffy bird...the SOP says very clearly: Lower body...feathers not to be too profuse. The English Orps I see at shows are very fluffy and for some reason have these little bitty heads for the size of the birds. Now....maybe I'm not seeing good specimens, I don't know, but I have seen tons of pics of them.

IMO: and I am also the Chairman of the APA Standard Committee, the English birds are not anything like the description of the Orpington in the APA SOP. They are very cool looking birds, but they do not fit the APA description of an Orp. People mix all kinds of things in their quest to improve SOP birds, but because of the British Orps loose feathering and some other things I see, I'm not sure I would use them with an US Orp for any reason......that's just me though. Loose feathering does not usually go away and is probably why we are seeing these whimpy tails in Orps now. For the Orp tail to look correct the tail feathers need to be stiff........not loose.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

Walt I know you are busy but I am curious if you have been able to read the UK standard?

I don't have a British Standard, but I do have an Australian Standard and their Orp.......not Australorp .....is about the same description as the US description for an Orpington, with the exception that theirs calls for a small neat head.

They also say: Plumage- Fairly profuse but close, not soft, loose and fluffy as in the Cochin or close and hard as in the game. Their illustration of the Orp on page 94 looks pretty much like a US Orp.

When I write on this thread it will be only about what an APA SOP Orpington should look like. That is all I am concerned with at this point, since this is the Standard we use here.
I will give my opinion on Ruth's birds tonight or tomorrow and that will be based on judging them according to the APA SOP. The last pic is a very good angle.
to see differences.

Walt

I would like to know what the description for the head is though.

 

[jeremy]

Walt, the British SOP calls for the head to be "small and neat, fairly full over the eyes".

There's a copy of the British SOP on my website.

 

[OSUman]

Ok I was just curious, from what I understand the Australians used the British for their standard.

I don't have a British Standard, but I do have an Australian Standard and their Orp.......not Australorp .....is about the same description as the US description for an Orpington, with the exception that theirs calls for a small neat head.

They also say: Plumage- Fairly profuse but close, not soft, loose and fluffy as in the Cochin or close and hard as in the game. Their illustration of the Orp on page 94 looks pretty much like a US Orp.

When I write on this thread it will be only about what an APA SOP Orpington should look like. That is all I am concerned with at this point, since this is the Standard we use here.
I will give my opinion on Ruth's birds tonight or tomorrow and that will be based on judging them according to the APA SOP. The last pic is a very good angle.
to see differences.

Walt

I would like to know what the description for the head is though.