Post Pics Of Orps/ Orpingtons HERE

[fowlman01]

Lets make this clear again. The English class is just a class of birds from England. (Orps, Cornish, Sussex etc.........) it has nothing whatsoever to do with how the birds are judged. ALL birds judged in the US are judged by the American Poultry Assn Standards. The British Standard is NEVER used in the US....NEVER! As an example the Asiatic class is not judged by the Japanese Standard even the French Marans here are not judged by the French Standard, they are judged by the APA SOP.

When you hear about the English class it is just a group of birds that originated in England........they are all judged by the APA Standards......no other countries Standards are used here in the USA.....ever.

Walt

 

[lildinkem]

Having an APA SOP is all fine. BUT, if one does not bother to read what it says and direct your breeding program to meet the ideals within the breed of the SOP, your not really getting anywhere.
Alot of Orps here have alot of nice traits. On the other hand they also need alot more to be a show winner. I see very few Orps with nice tails. I see alot of Orps who do not have the full rounded breast. Alot of teeny tiny size heads. To make a great bird one will need to work on these traits to better their stock. So, who cares if your bird is 100%, 50%, 75% UK if your bird has some traits that need to be corrected.
What also gets me is those who say they breed to the SOP and they never shown a bird. How do you know your breeding to the SOP if you never show? Part of showing birds is to know what corrections you have made are working in the eyes of judges. And just showing in one show does not mean that you will get your answer. You need to show in multiple shows. Get many different opinions before you can say that you breed to the SOP.

 

[chickened]

I have seen that with the tails, I am no expert but they all seem to have cochin type rounded tails but not carbon copy which seems wrong and with cornish which I have experience with you do not breed bad tails ever it is hard to bring back. I also see plumage used to get mass. Now I do see Buffs from time to time that are good specimens but I have a feeling that type was not compromised for color in that particular color. Just a guess. Personally most of the satisfaction for me is the challenge of breeding to the highest standard from the least but good stock and yes eventually putting them up for scrutiny of the judges. I know I can buy ready made birds or close to it but that is not for me.

Having an APA SOP is all fine. BUT, if one does not bother to read what it says and direct your breeding program to meet the ideals within the breed of the SOP, your not really getting anywhere.
Alot of Orps here have alot of nice traits. On the other hand they also need alot more to be a show winner. I see very few Orps with nice tails. I see alot of Orps who do not have the full rounded breast. Alot of teeny tiny size heads. To make a great bird one will need to work on these traits to better their stock. So, who cares if your bird is 100%, 50%, 75% UK if your bird has some traits that need to be corrected.
What also gets me is those who say they breed to the SOP and they never shown a bird. How do you know your breeding to the SOP if you never show? Part of showing birds is to know what corrections you have made are working in the eyes of judges. And just showing in one show does not mean that you will get your answer. You need to show in multiple shows. Get many different opinions before you can say that you breed to the SOP.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Lets make this clear again. The English class is just a class of birds from England. (Orps, Cornish, Sussex etc.........) it has nothing whatsoever to do with how the birds are judged. ALL birds judged in the US are judged by the American Poultry Assn Standards. The British Standard is NEVER used in the US....NEVER! As an example the Asiatic class is not judged by the Japanese Standard even the French Marans here are not judged by the French Standard, they are judged by the APA SOP.

When you hear about the English class it is just a group of birds that originated in England........they are all judged by the APA Standards......no other countries Standards are used here in the USA.....ever.

Walt

Thanks for the clarification Walt. Just an FYI: Walt is a long tome Orpington breeder/showman and a licensed American Poultry Association judge.

Having an APA SOP is all fine. BUT, if one does not bother to read what it says and direct your breeding program to meet the ideals within the breed of the SOP, your not really getting anywhere.
Alot of Orps here have alot of nice traits. On the other hand they also need alot more to be a show winner. I see very few Orps with nice tails. I see alot of Orps who do not have the full rounded breast. Alot of teeny tiny size heads. To make a great bird one will need to work on these traits to better their stock. So, who cares if your bird is 100%, 50%, 75% UK if your bird has some traits that need to be corrected.
What also gets me is those who say they breed to the SOP and they never shown a bird. How do you know your breeding to the SOP if you never show? Part of showing birds is to know what corrections you have made are working in the eyes of judges. And just showing in one show does not mean that you will get your answer. You need to show in multiple shows. Get many different opinions before you can say that you breed to the SOP.

Owning a SOP is not enough. One must read and understand the SOP. Many top breeders/showmen will make a copy of the page for their breed/variety and laminate that copy. then post it on the coop gate. Then they can read the standard everytime they are handling their birds.

Showing a bird does not make it SOP quality. Though it may help. many breeders over the years produced SOP quality and never showed. Exhibiting at a poultry show will help compare your birds to others. There are many that are not interested in showing, yet raise great birds. Metzer farms has a team of judges come in and evaluate their breeding flocks of waterfowl. Metzer then post a comparison chart on their website.

We have also had other breeders of Orpingtons visit our farm (using good bio-security) and asked for their evaluation of our stock.

We visit our 4H club memebrs farms often to assist them in culling their various breeds/varieties.

Sometimes all a fellow breeder or nearby poultry judge will want in return for their opinion is fuel money a nd a free meal. Most poultry judges will judge a small show close to home for $150 or so. Offer a judge $100 and expenses to come check your flock out.

Some are even lucky enough to have a Master Orpington Breeder/Judge that sells them quality birds CHEAP! (Not mentioning any names...but its listed in this post above and he doesn't live out west).

 

[chickened]

I do not know Walt personally but of anybody here I do respect him and his opinion/knowledge most. Have read alot of his stuff.

Thanks for the clarification Walt. Just an FYI: Walt is a long tome Orpington breeder/showman and a licensed American Poultry Association judge.


Owning a SOP is not enough. One must read and understand the SOP. Many top breeders/showmen will make a copy of the page for their breed/variety and laminate that copy. then post it on the coop gate. Then they can read the standard everytime they are handling their birds.

Showing a bird does not make it SOP quality. Though it may help. many breeders over the years produced SOP quality and never showed. Exhibiting at a poultry show will help compare your birds to others. There are many that are not interested in showing, yet raise great birds. Metzer farms has a team of judges come in and evaluate their breeding flocks of waterfowl. Metzer then post a comparison chart on their website.

We have also had other breeders of Orpingtons visit our farm (using good bio-security) and asked for their evaluation of our stock.

We visit our 4H club memebrs farms often to assist them in culling their various breeds/varieties.

Sometimes all a fellow breeder or nearby poultry judge will want in return for their opinion is fuel money a nd a free meal. Most poultry judges will judge a small show close to home for $150 or so. Offer a judge $100 and expenses to come check your flock out.

Some are even lucky enough to have a Master Orpington Breeder/Judge that sells them quality birds CHEAP! (Not mentioning any names...but its listed in this post above and he doesn't live out west).

 

[fowlman01]

Thanks for the kind words. I currently don't raise Orps, but have for many years. The picture in my profile is one of my birds. It is too bad that you can't really see it's head. It is a very wide head. The SOP says: Head: medium in length, broad and deep. US Orps should not have fluff that is excessive and covers the hock. You should be able to see the hock. It should also not be a fluffy bird...the SOP says very clearly: Lower body...feathers not to be too profuse. The English Orps I see at shows are very fluffy and for some reason have these little bitty heads for the size of the birds. Now....maybe I'm not seeing good specimens, I don't know, but I have seen tons of pics of them.

IMO: and I am also the Chairman of the APA Standard Committee, the English birds are not anything like the description of the Orpington in the APA SOP. They are very cool looking birds, but they do not fit the APA description of an Orp. People mix all kinds of things in their quest to improve SOP birds, but because of the British Orps loose feathering and some other things I see, I'm not sure I would use them with an US Orp for any reason......that's just me though. Loose feathering does not usually go away and is probably why we are seeing these whimpy tails in Orps now. For the Orp tail to look correct the tail feathers need to be stiff........not loose.

Walt

 

[Dark Dozens]

One of my 1 1/2 year old Buff Orpingtons

 

[aveca]

In my quest of learning ..dont you guys think it is more of a " neatness" to the tail? you see some of those birds and not in a molt and the tail looks atrocious, 2 or 3 big straight feathers poking out of a fountian of feathers..I think maybe they were just trying to correct that to what they thought lookd good to them... I always want to reach in there are grab thast one big feather poking out and pluck it..it is distracting.. trust me, I did see some of those clean legged cochins in England and I didnt like them, to me there were clean legged cohins. I sent some pics to Bill quite a while ago that my cousin took. to me those were not impressive as orpingtons...you do have to admit the orpington mans birds were pretty much picture perfect by SOP here..they were not too cohiney or as my cousin calls them cohiningtons the over all picture of those birds was very appealing without sacrifising the orpington. a few were a little fluffy but some of them stood out as near perfect.

If I could try to paint a picture of what I mean, if you had one of those spectacular german new hampshires and you know what a nice neat picture they present from the side, and one of them had nice tails , nice tenting both ways, but 3 or 4 feathers that looked like they came off from a different bird. too big compared to the rest. hard to elaborate on this without pics TO illustrate.something about that buggs me..I assume maybe somone tried to correct that along the way using a cochin or 2..then you have the people who get carried away with that.

 

[DaveK]

I really don't know where the Cochin idea came from. Might have happened as you never know but if so when? And with what? Blacks that could easily fit into the present British shows have been pictured and described since the 1920s. Even Maurice Wallace from Ontario had written re the "extreme" British blacks. So these guys have been around for a while in a form that would be appreciated by those who favor the UK type. I am a Cochin man. If it was Cochins that lent the 1920s birds their extremeness I would love to know where they were and had come from. Ever look at pictures of UK Cochins from that time frame and forward? No matter what anyone feels about the UK type it would be hard to look at what existed 80-90 years ago and think that those pitiful Cochins had anything to give the Orpingtons. And even if they did then so what? Chickens are a conglomeration, some more set than others. Orpingtons are not, in the world of poultry history, an old breed. So there is always the ability to kind of bend them in a given direction fairly easily. Walt, glad to have you chime in. On the loose feather; in looking at pics of what I imagine is the best that Europe has to offer I do not see the fluff and extremely LOOSE feather. I see very broad and PROFUSE feather but of a substance and quality that it makes almost a jacket of feather. It may not hug the body as does a Sumatra or ??? but there is a finished, smooth quality to the overall picture that I cannot describe as loose or fluffy. Almost like someone has blown up a balloon of broad, heavy overlapping feather. Just gorgeous when they get that right. Dorking hens can have a similar feather though with their very different type the total impression is of course very different.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Thanks for the kind words. I currently don't raise Orps, but have for many years. The picture in my profile is one of my birds. It is too bad that you can't really see it's head. It is a very wide head. The SOP says: Head: medium in length, broad and deep. US Orps should not have fluff that is excessive and covers the hock. You should be able to see the hock. It should also not be a fluffy bird...the SOP says very clearly: Lower body...feathers not to be too profuse. The English Orps I see at shows are very fluffy and for some reason have these little bitty heads for the size of the birds. Now....maybe I'm not seeing good specimens, I don't know, but I have seen tons of pics of them.

IMO: and I am also the Chairman of the APA Standard Committee, the English birds are not anything like the description of the Orpington in the APA SOP. They are very cool looking birds, but they do not fit the APA description of an Orp. People mix all kinds of things in their quest to improve SOP birds, but because of the British Orps loose feathering and some other things I see, I'm not sure I would use them with an US Orp for any reason......that's just me though. Loose feathering does not usually go away and is probably why we are seeing these whimpy tails in Orps now. For the Orp tail to look correct the tail feathers need to be stiff........not loose.

Walt

Another fault I see are Buff Orpingtons almost yellow or lemon. Some bantams are almost red.

The Standard calls for "an even shade of rich golden buff."

Definition of Buff: "A medium shade of orange-yellow color with a rich golden cast; not so intense as to show a reddish cast, nor so pale as to appear lemon or light yellow."