Post Pics Of Orps/ Orpingtons HERE

[chickened]

I may be alone in this opinion but breeding quality birds as most know takes years if not the better part of your life and I think for myself if I am going to spend the time and energy and $$ to breed great birds that I feel it is robbery to not be able to show them in the APA shows. The shows are the ultimate benchmark of your achievements otherwise all you get from others is a pat on the back or "nice birds" which for me is OK but not really the satisfaction I am looking for. It is easy for me to impress me but impressing a judge is another story. JMO

 

[DaveK]

The point I am making is that if I were to import and exhibit "BasketBallBoy" in an APA sanctioned show he is going to be entered as a buff Orpington. That is a color variety within a breed that is Standardized by the APA. He would therefore be evaluated as per the APA SOP. He would NOT be evaluated as a UK Exhibition type Orp so there is none of Jim Hall's comments abut providing a UK Standard or especially import papers. If I buy a bird from so and so and exhibit it do I need to provide "import papers" to indicate that it came into my yards from somewhere else? We have one sanctioned Standard in use at our shows. If the breed/color variety is accepted and Standardized they are evaluated against that. A non Standard color variety of an accepted breed can win best of variety but can go no further. A non Standard breed may be quite an interesting exhibit but without an APA SOP for that unrecognized breed we have no way to judge AT AN APA SHOW. We have to remember the context of this particular discussion. Bill's comments about BYC are echoed publicly and privately by many. Still, as far as BYC is concerned this discussion is taking place as a thread on the Breeds, Genetics and Showing Forum. And some of us are responding to Jim Hall's statements that as far as I am concerned completely muddy the waters where showing is concerned.

 

[Goose and Fig]

I may be alone in this opinion but breeding quality birds as most know takes years if not the better part of your life and I think for myself if I am going to spend the time and energy and $$ to breed great birds that I feel it is robbery to not be able to show them in the APA shows. The shows are the ultimate benchmark of your achievements otherwise all you get from others is a pat on the back or "nice birds" which for me is OK but not really the satisfaction I am looking for. It is easy for me to impress me but impressing a judge is another story. JMO

You can always breed great birds and have others show them. I like going to shows- for about 10 minutes. I always feel like I'm in the wrong isle at the wrong time or something.Too many people milling about for my comfort zone. And when you have a farm to run, you just can't get away for that amount of time. Its a big deal for us to go anywhere, let alone get birds ready and deliver and all that stuff.

 

[aveca]

I am the person who likes to go show..When Im shopping around my eyes tell me if there are enough pictures what is acceptable. and I work in that might breed quite a few then cull right down to show and breeders...I am never going to be the big breeder, Im going to help guage where we are at .a guage to the breeding program at hand. I will keep enough around that is somone needs to reclaim thier stock at a certian point like bob whitney did a few years ago..we keep a resivoiur of those genes in seperate pens for them to call on..

I have the greatest repect for the APA judges..I think a lot of the dialoge creates animosity toward a breed or strain that doesnt need to be.
My mind works a little differently, I think how can I make this work for me..what do I need to disguard, and what do I need to work on..I only work in colors that are currently recognised by APA such as whites that will be new to me and black orps..

It could be a win win if things are done carefully, respectfully.
When I was shopping around last couple years I saw a group of birds , right away they stood out as there is something very very special there..somone did an outstanding job of combining the best of the best with climate conditions considered smaller combs which I think is very attractice as well. It appealed to me, it also appealed to the judges, 3 of them plus one APA judge that is a freind..so maybe its just me but to me its a gift in disguise.

 

[OSUman]

Marans are a foreign breed that have no resembling breed in the US. The English Orpington Standard is almost Identical to the APA standard.

The APA does not care what people raise. An APA show will use the APA Standard to judge birds in an APA show. If birds are not accepted by the APA they will be judged as a non standard breed and the judge will be just guessing if they don't have a standard for that breed, so sometimes people will provide the judge with the "standard". A non standard bird can only go as high as BV and even then it cannot compete against the other birds for a higher award. As an example until a couple years ago the Marans were not recognized by the APA. Serious breeders would sometimes provide the French Standard for judges to use. Now two Marans are recognized. (Black Copper and Wheaten).

I personally raise three non standard breeds and will probably raise some British Orps this season. I also raise what I want to raise and it is not always a standard breed. People should raise whatever birds they enjoy.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

Marans are a foreign breed that have no resembling breed in the US. The English Orpington Standard is almost Identical to the APA standard.

I wasn't comparing the breeds. I just mentioned that the Marans breeders provided the French Standard to judges, so that they had at least an idea of what to look for. The APA Marans Standard now is not the same as the French although it is close.

If the British Standard calls for an Orpington with a little head, it may not do well under an APA judge. I guess I have to read their Standard, but the examples I have seen posted would not do well under most APA judges. If the buff bird we are talking about is shown in an APA show it should be DQ'd for lacking Orpington type...I don't think any APA judge would put that up as an Orpington.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

OK.......I can't find the Brit Standard for Orps, but 2007 National Champion Buff Orp does not look like any US Orp I have seen. I have seen enough APA SOP problems to DQ it here in the USA for lacking Orp breed type....based on that pic. I can't understand how the APA and the British Standards are almost the same when birds like this are winning there. I am sure it conforms with the British Standard but anyone that thinks they look alike.....well.......I just don't know what to say about that.

I am not running down the British birds or their Standards, I am responding as an APA judge using APA SOP guidlines for this picture.

http://poultrykeeper.com/orpington/the-orpington/

Walt

 

[galanie]

Marans are a foreign breed that have no resembling breed in the US.  The English Orpington Standard is almost Identical to the APA standard.

I wasn't comparing the breeds. I just mentioned that the Marans breeders provided the French Standard to judges, so that they had at least an idea of what to look for. The APA Marans Standard now is not the same as the French although it is close.

If the British Standard calls for an Orpington with a little head, it may not do well under an APA judge. I guess I have to read their Standard, but the examples I have seen posted would not do well under most APA judges. If the buff bird we are talking about is shown in an APA show it should be DQ'd for lacking Orpington type...I don't think any APA judge would put that up as an Orpington.

Walt

The British Standard for Orpingtons are at the bottom of this page on Jeremy's website: http://brooksidecottagefarms.com/?page_id=212

It is evident to me that their show winning birds don't even adhere to their SOP once I read this. I hope APA judges don't follow their example.

 

[fowlman01]

Checked the British Standard...don't have time to go word for word, but the major differences I see are the head and how much fluff they can have on their thighs. Those two things are not the same as the APA SOP, and those are pretty important differences. Looking at their Standard and looking at what they put up as superior specimens kind of throws me, but they may have a great answer about why the standard is different than the birds placed. The British Standard says: plumage-Fairly profuse but close, not soft, loose and fluffy like a Cochin or close and hard like a game. This is the same description the Australian Standard uses for Orps. This is pretty accurate for an Orpington plumage, but that is not what I am seeing in the British birds here or abroad.

A standard is useless if judges are picking birds that do not fit their Standard description.

Again...I have no axe to grind with the British birds, I like them. My responses here are my opinion as an APA judge and as a long time breeder of Orpingtons in black and buff.
(black-C. Moore, buff-R. Brazelton)

Walt

 

[chickened]

I felt the same way about shows, after 1/2 hour I was done. I think showing them and all the stuff with that would be a little more time consuming and especially if I had many birds there. I helped out an exhibitor at the Stockton show and it was very interesting. I was not bored.

I am self employed and run a business and a farm with more than chickens mind you and I always am happy when the days get longer.

You can always breed great birds and have others show them. I like going to shows- for about 10 minutes. I always feel like I'm in the wrong isle at the wrong time or something.Too many people milling about for my comfort zone. And when you have a farm to run, you just can't get away for that amount of time. Its a big deal for us to go anywhere, let alone get birds ready and deliver and all that stuff.