Bill I agree with Dave 100% on that Buff, and I agree with Walt on about Tail Feathers and Comb. Look at the Thickness of Those Legs. I feel strongly this is what the Standard Describes. I also believe that Some of the Imported Buffs will be Useful in Developing This Type of Bird. Some Import birds are not as close to Our Standard. They will involve more work to achieve improvement. It will probably be costly to to Develop some new Sop Blood.
I understand Aveca's question, or at least I think I do. I don't always know what they mean in the SOP either. For instance, what does "moderately long" really mean? Proportions would be helpful. We rely heavily on the visual whether we realize it or not. The eye sees the proportions that make "moderately long" make sense. I read some fascinating references to shape on another breed where they used a rectangle overlaid on the bird's drawing to illustrate the proper proportion of that breed's body and shape.
In this electronic world, it's not as if we can take a pencil to the screen and draw the ideal line on the picture of an almost perfect one and say "There! That's what I mean." As the past couple of pages illustrate, language can be inexact. What is clear to me isn't always clear to others and vice versa.
I, for one, am unsure what the comb following the head means. I think it means that the base of the comb should follow a line that the head would make if there were no comb present, but as I said, I'm unsure.
I'm also guessing the reason for all requests for a bird with the right outline and look IN BLACK is because an artist can't just take a buff bird and color it black. A child with a box of crayons can but anyone wanting to create quality artwork can't. The play of the light on the feathers makes it so that all the artist can really do is stretch this part a bit or take that line down some. Or do what I did, and make only a profile for my egg carton logo. And mine isn't perfect SOP but the outline of my favorite hen lol.
Edit: And any critisims of the above are welcome. This was from a photo when she was not laying yet. She no longer carries her tail that high but it's still above a 25 degree angle.
I think most of us are visual.....what I have been saying for a couple days is: Read the Standard, then look at the illustrations in the SOP that correspond with the breed. look at the comb. That illustration is tied into the description ....no matter what anyone thinks, it is accurate and while not a work of art it will show you exactly how the comb should look. If a person does not want to do it in that sequence I can't help them. I try to help people understand the SOP. If they want to do it another way or don't care, I don't care. The mistake most make is just looking in the section that addresses their breed. Now go look at a leghorn...note the comb does not follow the head. There are different types of single combs. For "long" look at the Plymouth Rock....it says "rather long"..the Orp says."moderately long....look at the illustrations of the Rock and Orp to get the correct perspective on "long" as it relates to each breed. . Rocks have a longer back than Orps, in fact you will never see "back to long" written on a Rock coop card. Long means long, not short or medium. Everything in the SOP is not in just the breed pages. To duplicate all that info the book would have to be over 1000 pages.
'The only reason I would ever hang out in a site like this is to help people understand the SOP. If they want to fight with me or forget how they posted that is up to them. I respond in the same way I am talked to online. This is not recreation to me, I am trying to help. My background is in graphics. If a graphic artist could not turn a buff Orp into a black Orp, I would fire them. If I still had photoshop on this computer I could turn that gray print from Dave K into a black Orp in about a minute.
Bill I agree with Dave 100% on that Buff, and I agree with Walt on about Tail Feathers and Comb. Look at the Thickness of Those Legs. I feel strongly this is what the Standard Describes. I also believe that Some of the Imported Buffs will be Useful in Developing This Type of Bird. Some Import birds are not as close to Our Standard. They will involve more work to achieve improvement. It will probably be costly to to Develop some new Sop Blood.
As you know there are no perfect birds. That illustration is a solid bird overall though. I have seen birds in person and then seen them in PP and it looks like another bird...and not in a good way, so photo's are sometimes misleading. Schilling retouched most of his stuff, so it is probably one of the best illustrations to view for accuracy. A lot of his stuff was actual birds though, so some of his illustrations have some faults he couldn't fix...usually the lower breast showing a flat spot.
Bill I agree with Dave 100% on that Buff, and I agree with Walt on about Tail Feathers and Comb. Look at the Thickness of Those Legs. I feel strongly this is what the Standard Describes. I also believe that Some of the Imported Buffs will be Useful in Developing This Type of Bird. Some Import birds are not as close to Our Standard. They will involve more work to achieve improvement. It will probably be costly to to Develop some new Sop Blood.
I agree with both of you ..I think it is a good move..careful attention to detail will make the old clevenger again..It just needs a little shot in the arm..orpingtons certianly were not the first breed to stray away from the ideal a bit just because they like a lot of others fell by the wayside when america left the farms for the workplace..I dont see a problem with trying to work out a problem.
Interesting on the color contrasts zooweemomma , and that looks like a nice outline to me Galani.
Here is my question, I read the description, as you can see I selected one that had a comb that rather follows the head..5 points..straight..It is tough when Im reading and looking at this.. saying to myself..where am I with this? can I improve adding just a bit of english into this?
when trying to get ready to show..Its also tough when you kept all your eggs in one basket and the weasle got them..I spent all summer preparing three birds ..weasle got 2 and left one without middle wing feathers, huge swath of tail feathers pulled out, I knew they belonged to the cockeral by the curve in the feather..I know there are faults here..probably lots..but I did manage a shine to feather , these photos are as is, no retouching (I dont have a program to do that.) All I want to do is improve..sometimes like this year there are setbacks.
the weasle problem has been taken care of. the small traps work well.
These pics are at 5 months.
a large swath of tail missing right side some growing back, some scarring
large number of middle wing feathers missing, some scarring..I am going to look more closley tommorrow and see if anything is growing back in there..I could feel a little scarring..there had been a hole up in pit of wing, but it healed. it literally climbed up under the wing and just started eating chicken alive. this one mended , the other 2 were not so lucky.
right wing when opened , perffectly normal..nothing missing. I couldnt hold him and take a pic of wings opened.
Bill I agree with Dave 100% on that Buff, and I agree with Walt on about Tail Feathers and Comb. Look at the Thickness of Those Legs. I feel strongly this is what the Standard Describes. I also believe that Some of the Imported Buffs will be Useful in Developing This Type of Bird. Some Import birds are not as close to Our Standard. They will involve more work to achieve improvement. It will probably be costly to to Develop some new Sop Blood.
For sure there is many ways to get to the same place. From what I seen of those who use the UK's in their breeding program after the initial first crossing onto APA Orps you then need to tweek for the bigger head and the firmer feathering, but after that your home free. Some of our APA breeders have used Plymouth Rock. Same as the UK breeders have used Cochin. A good friend who posts here regularly bought a UK male and got ALOT of feathered legs. He either whacked that male or is about too.
Like you said with feed prices going up anyway you do it won't be cheap.
Bill: The Imported Buffs may not cross to SOP Buffs the same as the Blacks. Time will tell. I believe Dragon Lady and Renie will be Successful. When it comes to some things Buffs, Blacks and Whites Breed Somewhat Differently.
For SOP Buff Orp standards- I have a question. My friend has hatchery BOs. They are big, curved backsides (tails go straight up more than I see on SQ in pics), very very orange in color, large combs and wattles (which vary in size greatly from bird to bird even though they are all the same age) and the feathers look a lot tighter and coarser than my BOs (not hatchery stock). Her birds are a few weeks older than mine. But none of our birds are over 36 weeks old. My BOs have a more buttery orange, softer and looser feathers. I am not familiar with APA standards yet (getting the book this Fall) and am seeing you guys chat about feather quality. Which feather quality is more SOP? Dark orange, tighter feathers or soft buttery orange with looser feathers? Thanks!
The plumage of Orps is important in order to maintain the ideal type/shape of the breed. The feathers should be broad and smooth fitting on the deep body of this breed. The appearance of massiveness should not be achieved by developing extreme length of feathers in the plumage. (this is what appears to be going on in the tail of the Dave K pic...long stringy feathers.) The sides of the body (fluff area) should be comparatively straight with full but not profuse feathering. You should be able to see the profile of the hock.
All English breeds with the exception of the Cornish need to have feathers moderately long and broad., fitting close to the body.
Buff: a medium shade of orange-yellow color with a rich golden cast. Not so intense to look red and not so pale as to look lemon. As an example....the bird in my avatar looks washed out .......it was a scan from an analog picture and lost it's brightness, which you will understand. It should look more golden.
