preliminary necropsy and Marek’s

[Shugercube]

So unfortunately I had a cockerel pass away yesterday. The day before he was acting lethargic and wouldn’t eat or drink, so I brought him inside, checked him over. He was severely emaciated, and I can’t say with any certainty whether he’d stopped eating for an extended period or if he’d been eating and just not able to absorb what he was taking in. I didn’t see any evidence of external parasites or injuries, and other than clearly being malnourished he seemed like a normal healthy chicken. He didn’t seem to be in any pain or distress. I gave him fluids and he was pooping, but it was diarrhea that was mostly clear with a lot of urates. After 2 sessions of fluids only, I began giving him formula which he tolerated just fine. He continued to poop after that, which became a weird orangey brown color and still very liquidy and sort of mucousy looking, and still had a lot of urates. Unfortunately he was too far gone by the time he showed me any signs that something was wrong, and he passed away overnight.

Having suspected Marek’s in the flock, I sent him for necropsy. The preliminary results only show a thickening/dilation of the proventriculus and duodenum, and a small “mass of entangled plant material.” So basically, barring anything unusual in the pathology, they think it was simply a blockage.

Would Marek’s be fairly obvious in the preliminary? They’re still going to test everything and do a full pathology and fecal evaluation, which takes up to 3 weeks. I feel somewhat hopeful that there were no immediate signs of Marek’s like tumors or enlarged nerves, but I assume I still have to wait for the full report to come back to really know for sure. 3 weeks is going to feel like forever!

 

[Eggcessive]

Mareks can be suspected if they see small lesions on the liver, intestines, or other organs. The sciatic nerves may be enlarged on chickens with lameness. Eyes in ocular Mareks can cause changes in the irises and pupil shape. But further histology testing is needed for an actual diagnosis. So sorry that you suspect Mareks, but it is good that you sought a necropsy. States can vary in how thorough they look for certain diseases.

 

[Shugercube]

Mareks can be suspected if they see small lesions on the liver, intestines, or other organs. The sciatic nerves may be enlarged on chickens with lameness. Eyes in ocular Mareks can cause changes in the irises and pupil shape. But further histology testing is needed for an actual diagnosis. So sorry that you suspect Mareks, but it is good that you sought a necropsy. States can vary in how thorough they look for certain diseases.

Thanks! They just sent an “interim” report, showing the fecal results- positive for heterakis and coccidia. So I’ll be treating the whole flock for those.

Could coccidiosis cause symptoms of vitamin deficiencies? (Specifically, B and E vitamins?) My suspected case of Marek’s presented with lethargy, along with severe weakness/paralysis, along with some wryneck. which was overcome through intensive care including high doses of E and B complex vitamins, which seemed to reverse the wryneck and lameness. I’m still looking into testing the suspected bird, but I’m not sure I’m comfortable trying to collect a blood sample myself to actually be able to get the test done.

 

[FunClucks]

Thanks! They just sent an “interim” report, showing the fecal results- positive for heterakis and coccidia. So I’ll be treating the whole flock for those.

Could coccidiosis cause symptoms of vitamin deficiencies? (Specifically, B and E vitamins?) My suspected case of Marek’s presented with lethargy, along with severe weakness/paralysis, along with some wryneck. which was overcome through intensive care including high doses of E and B complex vitamins, which seemed to reverse the wryneck and lameness. I’m still looking into testing the suspected bird, but I’m not sure I’m comfortable trying to collect a blood sample myself to actually be able to get the test done.

Definitely. Coccidiosis can lead to B vitamin deficiency, I forget which exact one. B vitamin deficiency can lead to lameness/paralysis. It may also be a culprit in wryneck? It's possible for a chicken to recover from the lameness/paralysis if you catch it early enough, but it can take a very long time sometimes. Sometimes they don't recover. When you treat for coccidiosis, do not give a vitamin supplement or anything with B vitamins in it, as that strengthens the coccidia. The treatment for Coccidiosis starves the coccidia of vit B (as I understand it), and then they die and leave the chicken. After your coccidiosis treatment is over, it's a good idea to use Poultry Cell (or human vitamin B complex - look on this site for how) in the water to replenish the vitamins they lost to the coccidia.

I'm pretty new at chicken keeping, but I've been keeping an eye on my own flock about this issue. Other folks, please chime in if I'm mistaken.

 

[Shugercube]

Definitely. Coccidiosis can lead to B vitamin deficiency, I forget which exact one. B vitamin deficiency can lead to lameness/paralysis. It may also be a culprit in wryneck? It's possible for a chicken to recover from the lameness/paralysis if you catch it early enough, but it can take a very long time sometimes. Sometimes they don't recover. When you treat for coccidiosis, do not give a vitamin supplement or anything with B vitamins in it, as that strengthens the coccidia. The treatment for Coccidiosis starves the coccidia of vit B (as I understand it), and then they die and leave the chicken. After your coccidiosis treatment is over, it's a good idea to use Poultry Cell (or human vitamin B complex - look on this site for how) in the water to replenish the vitamins they lost to the coccidia.

I'm pretty new at chicken keeping, but I've been keeping an eye on my own flock about this issue. Other folks, please chime in if I'm mistaken.

Thanks for your input!! I’m still fairly new as well, and trying to research into it all. There’s SO.MUCH. out there, and trying to determine what’s accurate and what’s simply anecdotal can be difficult. I really really don’t want to have Marek’s in my flock, so I’m totally grasping at straws hoping there’s any combination of explanations for what I’ve seen OTHER than Marek’s lol. Like, I tell myself if Marek’s caused the paralysis due to the tumors pressing on nerves, or due to the nerves being inflamed, that the paralysis wouldn’t have gone away, because Marek’s never goes away. But Marek’s seems to be super tricky like that, so I’m pretty sure that’s not quite how it works.

I’m hoping this necropsy shows no Marek’s in the pathology and that will help me feel a little better at least if that’s the case. But in the meantime, until I can bring myself to test the actual suspected bird, I’m still treating it as though there’s Marek’s in my flock- I make sure to shower and wear fresh clothes and shoes when I go to the feed store, and keeping my flock closed unless/until I’m 1000% sure there’s zero Marek’s.

 

[FunClucks]

Thanks for your input!! I’m still fairly new as well, and trying to research into it all. There’s SO.MUCH. out there, and trying to determine what’s accurate and what’s simply anecdotal can be difficult. I really really don’t want to have Marek’s in my flock, so I’m totally grasping at straws hoping there’s any combination of explanations for what I’ve seen OTHER than Marek’s lol. Like, I tell myself if Marek’s caused the paralysis due to the tumors pressing on nerves, or due to the nerves being inflamed, that the paralysis wouldn’t have gone away, because Marek’s never goes away. But Marek’s seems to be super tricky like that, so I’m pretty sure that’s not quite how it works.

I’m hoping this necropsy shows no Marek’s in the pathology and that will help me feel a little better at least if that’s the case. But in the meantime, until I can bring myself to test the actual suspected bird, I’m still treating it as though there’s Marek’s in my flock- I make sure to shower and wear fresh clothes and shoes when I go to the feed store, and keeping my flock closed unless/until I’m 1000% sure there’s zero Marek’s.

it's hard for sure. Nerve wracking. There's an Article on this site that talks about Merek's and goes through a bunch of other diseases it could be instead, complete with symptoms and information about each. If you haven't seen that yet it would be a good place to start. Sometimes it really is just a vitamin deficiency, but testing is the way to be certain. Could have Merek's and a vitamin deficiency...

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-disease-faq.66077/?page=3#ams-comment-515714

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...hings-every-chicken-keeper-should-know.72812/

 

[Idaho Chicken Bungalow]

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I commend you for getting the results. I wish I had known more about the vit b deficiency last November when I suspected Mareks as I culled my Barred Rock pullet because she had all the signs.

 

[Shugercube]

it's hard for sure. Nerve wracking. There's an Article on this site that talks about Merek's and goes through a bunch of other diseases it could be instead, complete with symptoms and information about each. If you haven't seen that yet it would be a good place to start. Sometimes it really is just a vitamin deficiency, but testing is the way to be certain. Could have Merek's and a vitamin deficiency...

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-disease-faq.66077/?page=3#ams-comment-515714

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...hings-every-chicken-keeper-should-know.72812/

Yes the great big Marek’s one is great, I’ve pored over it several times, and is why I’m really hoping it was just a combination of coccidia and a vitamin deficiency (possibly caused by malnutrition from the coccidiosis) that caused his symptoms, and NOT Marek’s! I know from gorging my brain on everything Marek’s that there *is* still life after it’s in your flock, but one of the reasons I decided to invest in chickens was the potential for making a little extra money on the side selling chicks and/or hatching eggs (wayyyyy down the road!) but obviously that’s completely out if I have Marek’s in my flock. So that would be disappointing, but not the end of the world at least.

 

[Shugercube]

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I commend you for getting the results. I wish I had known more about the vit b deficiency last November when I suspected Mareks as I culled my Barred Rock pullet because she had all the signs.

Thank you I’m sorry for your loss as well. Did you end up ruling out Marek’s after the fact??

 

[Idaho Chicken Bungalow]

Thank you I’m sorry for your loss as well. Did you end up ruling out Marek’s after the fact??

No, I was still very new to all things chickens. She did have some hard bumps on her head I suspected as tumors. I have not seen any signs in any other chicken in my flock, but I am alert all the same.