Preparing Your Flock & Coop for WINTER

I don't mind a bit....but I'll have to make it in a little bit. In the middle of Christmas decorating and Ken just headed to the storage unit to bring back the three most important parts - the Charlie Brown tree, the Village, and the MoosieNativity scene. So I sneaked on while he's gone to check in but don't have time to go into the fine points of the run just yet. But to answer one point, yes, we did use cattle panels.
 
I don't mind a bit....but I'll have to make it in a little bit.  In the middle of Christmas decorating and Ken just headed to the storage unit to bring back the three most important parts - the Charlie Brown tree, the Village, and the MoosieNativity scene.  So I sneaked on while he's gone to check in but don't have time to go into the fine points of the run just yet.  But to answer one point, yes, we did use cattle panels.

Thanks so much for making time to reply so fast. You must be a fast reader. I can just see you doing the Christmas decorations. OK for the cattle panels, not same, as they say in Hong Kong, but many design and construction details still could apply. I hope you can help with the condensation issue when you've more time.

Blessings
 
House is decorated, tree is up, and today just have to put up the MoosieNativity and the Village. Pain in the hiney to have a size 10 Christmas and a size 2 house! Should be fun trying to finish up around Kendra! Hope finding her Santa Baby will help, but then entertaining inquisitive 4 year olds are what Grampas are made for, right?

Anyway, last year we just used heavy ml (I think it was 6) clear plastic that we bought at Lowe's. We left the west side uncovered from about 2 feet down, simply because of the size of the plastic sheeting didn't allow for a full covering. That part we packed with leaves, and laid a piece of lattice over it tied to the panels with zip-ties at the top. That held the leaves in place and it formed a "hill", but air was able to permeate and I think that saved our bacon on the condensation issue. We also leave a large opening at both the north and south ends up at the top of the arch. On the north side that opening was over the people door and on the south side it was on the welded wire fence panel that served as the end of the run. The key, too, I think, was that we covered the cattle panels with white vinyl lattice, which sort of just draped over the arch of the run, and that kept any little pokey-outies from wiring the chicken wire to the cattle panels from making little holes in the cover and kept it from shredding. That also created an air gap of about 1/8 inch between the cattle panels and the plastic. When we took the plastic off this spring, we were able to remove it in 2 major pieces, totally intact. The main cover over the entire structure was still in perfect shape so we folded it up carefully and put it away to use again this winter. The end piece also came off in one piece with no rips or tears and that was also going to be reused.

But we expanded the run this spring by one cattle panel. Easy as could be - just removed the end panel with the chicken wire, hardware cloth skirt and apron in one piece, pounded in two more fence posts, arched another cattle panel and tied it to the existing ones, then put the end cap back on. So the clear plastic from last year wouldn't fit. The one thing we wanted to avoid was piecing different sizes of sheeting together.......seams are a weak point and we didn't want that. It won't go to waste - we made a miniature hoop in the garden, used that plastic as a cover, and that's where the ATV and riding lawn mower will live out the winter. We bought a clear reinforced tarp from Tarps,Inc (I think that's the name of the place) and is that stuff ever a joy to work with! Wow! Went on so easy, and it actually seems brighter in there this year than it did last. We have only had two really cold days and nights so far, so I have to be totally honest and say that I don't know what the condensation issues lie ahead, but if we have any we will just roll up the west side a bit and pack it with leaves again, as that seemed to be part of the solution last year. Ventilation is always, always the critical factor and we made sure that when the tarp went on we left ourselves ways to add it without having to start over.

It sounds much more complex than it actually is to do this. Ken did a lot of the work himself - it's hard to get out there with Kendra and I have her every day. So I could only lend a hand after Mom came to pick her up at the end of the day. Wheelchairs, 4 year olds, and chicken run building just don't mix! I don't know if you've been to my coop page, but toward the end there are several photos and explanations of what we did. I hope that answered your questions - it was kinda condensed but better descriptions are on My Coop page.
 
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House is decorated, tree is up, and today just have to put up the MoosieNativity and the Village.  Pain in the hiney to have a size 10 Christmas and a size 2 house!  Should be fun trying to finish up around Kendra!  Hope finding her Santa Baby will help, but then entertaining inquisitive 4 year olds are what Grampas are made for, right?

Anyway, last year we just used heavy ml (I think it was 6) clear plastic that we bought at Lowe's.  We left the west side uncovered from about 2 feet down, simply because of the size of the plastic sheeting didn't allow for a full covering.  That part we packed with leaves, and laid a piece of lattice over it tied to the panels with zip-ties at the top. That held the leaves in place and it formed a "hill", but air was able to permeate and I think that saved our bacon on the condensation issue.  We also leave a large opening at both the north and south ends up at the top of the arch.  On the north side that opening was over the people door and on the south side it was on the welded wire fence panel that served as the end of the run.  The key, too, I think, was that we covered the cattle panels with white vinyl lattice, which sort of just draped over the arch of the run, and that kept any little pokey-outies from wiring the chicken wire to the cattle panels from making little holes in the cover and kept it from shredding.  That also created an air gap of about 1/8 inch between the cattle panels and the plastic.  When we took the plastic off this spring, we were able to remove it in 2 major pieces, totally intact.  The main cover over the entire structure was still in perfect shape so we folded it up carefully and put it away to use again this winter. The end piece also came off in one piece with no rips or tears and that was also going to be reused.

But we expanded the run this spring by one cattle panel.  Easy as could be - just removed the end panel with the chicken wire, hardware cloth skirt and apron in one piece, pounded in two more fence posts, arched another cattle panel and tied it to the existing ones, then put the end cap back on.  So the clear plastic from last year wouldn't fit. The one thing we wanted to avoid was piecing different sizes of sheeting together.......seams are a weak point and we didn't want that.  It won't go to waste - we made a miniature hoop in the garden, used that plastic as a cover, and that's where the ATV and riding lawn mower will live out the winter.  We bought a clear reinforced tarp from Tarps,Inc (I think that's the name of the place) and is that stuff ever a joy to work with! Wow!  Went on so easy, and it actually seems brighter in there this year than it did last. We have only had two really cold days and nights so far, so I have to be totally honest and say that I don't know what the condensation issues lie ahead, but if we have any we will just roll up the west side a bit and pack it with leaves again, as that seemed to be part of the solution last year. Ventilation is always, always the critical factor and we made sure that when the tarp went on we left ourselves ways to add it without having to start over.

It sounds much more complex than it actually is to do this.  Ken did a lot of the work himself - it's hard to get out there with Kendra and I have her every day.  So I could only lend a hand after Mom came to pick her up at the end of the day.  Wheelchairs, 4 year olds, and chicken run building just don't mix!  I don't know if you've been to my coop page, but toward the end there are several photos and explanations of what we did.  I hope that answered your questions - it was kinda condensed but better descriptions are on My Coop page.

Blooie, thanks so much again. I visited your Coop page and learned so much more. This is my third attempt at a lengthy reply - my iPad keeps dumping my responses - so this is going to be a synopsis. I really like how you managed the ventilation and your use of the lattice. The vinyl tarp on one of my coops abraded where it contacted the PVC conduit; this was most notable where the chickens obliterated the foam pipe insulation. Don't know yet how my replacement clear poly tarp will wear. Love how you include detail. So much to learn from your Page. My problem, in a nutshell, is how to provide adequate ventilation while keeping the wind from from inflating the the coop and tearing/lifting off the tarp. Has a lot to do with how the tarp is affixed to its anchored supports, possibly, too, with the proper use of wind deflecting vents. Your Page was most helpful with these.

I think I can discourage racking by fastening the purlins (horizontal conduit supports and spacers) to sturdy fence posts at the ends and providing wind relief (ventilation) at BOTH ends at the top. I can see how the cattle panels can't rack; 'twas a major revelation.

A leach field limits my options for planting wind breaks in the north, so I am considering wind deflecting plastic fencing, strategically placed in the field, and maybe cut to fit coop ends. I truly abhor chicken wire and like wrapping it in plastic sheeting even less. To my lazy way of thinking it would be much easier to use something like corrugated clear panels, cut to fit, and mounted with hanger bolts and wing nuts to the frame. A friend of mine used this sort of patio roofing to roof his coop, setting it off from the side walls for ventilation, and I was impressed.

I think I could use some of the fencing I mentioned to cover large openings at the tops of my coop ends and big cut outs at the side bottoms, especially since I don't have predators.

It is hard to think of everything. For example, I put open windows in both the south and north ends of one coop, but then I put put in a solid divider separating the the coop into north and south halves. The divider had a small people door, but when it was shut, each half of the coop had an air entrance point with no way for it to exit. High winds had fun with THAT arrangement.

There is so much more to your Page that inspires me, and I will be referring to it in future posts. I DEFINITELY have improvements to make, and I should be able see clearly the effect they have on condensation issues. Should be worth at least an update - sometime.

The only thing worse than a Size 10 tree in a Size 2 house is a size 10 tree in a Size 3 house on three levels.
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This is a brief update on the issue of condensation in tarp covered hoop coops I've made. In the one large "airy" coop, totally enclosed but wth open south facing windows and gaps along the bottom, the snow has drifted up against the sides and closed off the bottom gaps: there are numerous drops of condensation all along the top of the arch, in the case of today, frozen solid. The other coop, similar to the first but only smaller, is only partially enclosed, and there is no condensation anywhere. It is a lot colder, though. There you go. Will work on more ventilation for the first, and enclosing more of the ends on the second. We'll see, can't never work too hard at these things
 
Every coop has its own variances, doesn't it? On this last modification to my hoop coop I arranged several different types of ventilation at all levels, the larger ones are adjustable, the smaller ones are mere cracks. If the smaller ones are blocked with bedding or snow, I have others in place to provide airflow at that level. With this last modification, I think I've finally found the best type of ventilation for this particular coop because last winter it went through all types of weather~even 17 below zero~like a dream. Warm but airy, comfortable to the max and not one sign of frostbite or discomfort in the flock.
 
Every coop has its own variances, doesn't it?  On this last modification to my hoop coop I arranged several different types of ventilation at all levels, the larger ones are adjustable, the smaller ones are mere cracks.  If the smaller ones are blocked with bedding or snow, I have others in place to provide airflow at that level.  With this last modification, I think I've finally found the best type of ventilation for this particular coop because last winter it went through all types of weather~even 17 below zero~like a dream.  Warm but airy, comfortable to the max and not one sign of frostbite or discomfort in the flock. 

Yes, they do. A coop that works in one spot may be totally unsuitable for another. What works for my Silkies may not work for the LF. I may catch myself moaning and groaning about all the problems life - and chickens - hand me, but the truth is, I just might seek and thrive on challenges. Why else would I be so devoted to caring for chickens? And chickens will make you soooo right when you solve a problem with their culture! Plus you just gotta' love their forgiving nature.

It's smart to design your coop so that you can modify it. I know my coop bears little resemblance to yours and that you've modified yours to increase ventilation, but how and where did you do this? The methods probably wouldn't work for my style coop, but at least I could get a feel for how much and where. Adjustable vents? Blooie's Coop page, btw, has been a great model and inspiration for me. Am also toying with the idea of using windscreen panels. Chicken nirvana here we come.

The more I know, the more I know I don't know. Scary. Blessings
 
Yes, they do. A coop that works in one spot may be totally unsuitable for another. What works for my Silkies may not work for the LF. I may catch myself moaning and groaning about all the problems life - and chickens - hand me, but the truth is, I just might seek and thrive on challenges. Why else would I be so devoted to caring for chickens? And chickens will make you soooo right when you solve a problem with their culture! Plus you just gotta' love their forgiving nature.

It's smart to design your coop so that you can modify it. I know my coop bears little resemblance to yours and that you've modified yours to increase ventilation, but how and where did you do this? The methods probably wouldn't work for my style coop, but at least I could get a feel for how much and where. Adjustable vents? Blooie's Coop page, btw, has been a great model and inspiration for me. Am also toying with the idea of using windscreen panels. Chicken nirvana here we come.

The more I know, the more I know I don't know. Scary. Blessings


I had made the classic mistake of thinking that my hoop coop would not be a very warm place for the chickens in my climate, even though lovely for summer weather, so I had battened it down with tarps and plastic, with hay bales all along the bottom, etc. I had good ventilation at the roof line and had the pop door open all winter, but with the coop all battened down tightly, I started to see condensation at the roof, dripping off the plastic and onto the birds and I also saw a faint rim of darkening at the combs. I thought I had had enough ventilation at the roof and floor level to get rid of any humidity but I was wrong...even the bedding was cold and damp, no matter how often I added dry bedding it was soon damp and cold feeling. Not good.

The following year I got rid of the haybales but still used the plastic to keep out the cold and left more open areas here and there that I could adjust, but they weren't really doing much...still got condensation, but less than the year before and no frost bite but the bedding would still feel a little cold and damp at times.

The year after that I built in the ends of the hoop coop, building an extra hoop onto the back for the roosting area, building in the ends with wood scraps, creating large windows covered in plastic on the sides where the roosts were located that could be opened or closed at any time. An additional window even with the roosts for the same purpose, the front door was built in half way up but the whole top half was left open...this can have a curtain applied to it if the wind is blowing the wrong way in the winter~rare, but it happens~, little windows on either side of the front door that were open at the top as well, but the bottom half could be opened or closed if needed. I had two pop doors now, either could be opened or closed as I saw fit.

In this manner, I have some ventilation that I cannot close~the roof vents, top half of the coop door, top half of the front windows, large cracks at mid level here and there~and some that I can close if the wind is kicking up on subzero days in the winter. I did these many vents that cannot be closed so that I would not be tempted to close them...and it was good. I also replaced my dark tarp in the central coop area with a clear tarp in the winter months...this let in lovely sunlight, warming the coop and the air in the coop, even on single digit days.

Meanwhile, I also had changed how I managed my deep litter, abandoning the pine shavings that weren't really working well, and going to mostly leaves for additional dry bedding in the winter months. All of these changes were like night and day to the time before when I intentionally closed every single opening except the roof vents and the pop door in attempts to keep the coop warmer...those worked in the opposite manner, trapping humidity from the chickens and the bedding inside to chill the birds and keep things damp. Now my coop was light, airy and warm....even in subzero temps it was registering 10 degrees warmer than outside temps at my roost level!

Adjustable ventilation can be achieved in many ways...with flaps that can be closed, use of floor furnace vents mounted at various heights in the coop wall that can be open or closed, curtains over openings, etc. I've even seen people use the exterior mountings for dryer vents on their coop to provide draft free ventilation.

Didn't mean to write a book...sorry.
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Here is a pic with some of the adjustable vents open....the windows on either side of the door are open and the feed bag curtain on the top half of the door is left open....




And one with the little side windows closed but the top half of them cannot be closed by the use of the little doors....they can if need be, be adjusted with just a flap of feed sack over them on really windy, subzero days. On those days, I've even closed that curtain on the top half of the door, but those days are rare as the wind usually blows from west to east on this coop.




Under the roosts I leave the pop door open no matter the temps or wind, as I have a wall opposite the pop door to block the wind from blowing directly into the coop there. That's another way to adapt ventilation...to have a diversion that blocks direct wind from entering the coop while still allowing air flow.
 
I had made the classic mistake of thinking that my hoop coop would not be a very warm place for the chickens in my climate, even though lovely for summer weather, so I had battened it down with tarps and plastic, with hay bales all along the bottom, etc. I had good ventilation at the roof line and had the pop door open all winter, but with the coop all battened down tightly, I started to see condensation at the roof, dripping off the plastic and onto the birds and I also saw a faint rim of darkening at the combs. I thought I had had enough ventilation at the roof and floor level to get rid of any humidity but I was wrong...even the bedding was cold and damp, no matter how often I added dry bedding it was soon damp and cold feeling. Not good. The following year I got rid of the haybales but still used the plastic to keep out the cold and left more open areas here and there that I could adjust, but they weren't really doing much...still got condensation, but less than the year before and no frost bite but the bedding would still feel a little cold and damp at times. The year after that I built in the ends of the hoop coop, building an extra hoop onto the back for the roosting area, building in the ends with wood scraps, creating large windows covered in plastic on the sides where the roosts were located that could be opened or closed at any time. An additional window even with the roosts for the same purpose, the front door was built in half way up but the whole top half was left open...this can have a curtain applied to it if the wind is blowing the wrong way in the winter~rare, but it happens~, little windows on either side of the front door that were open at the top as well, but the bottom half could be opened or closed if needed. I had two pop doors now, either could be opened or closed as I saw fit. In this manner, I have some ventilation that I cannot close~the roof vents, top half of the coop door, top half of the front windows, large cracks at mid level here and there~and some that I can close if the wind is kicking up on subzero days in the winter. I did these many vents that cannot be closed so that I would not be tempted to close them...and it was good. I also replaced my dark tarp in the central coop area with a clear tarp in the winter months...this let in lovely sunlight, warming the coop and the air in the coop, even on single digit days. Meanwhile, I also had changed how I managed my deep litter, abandoning the pine shavings that weren't really working well, and going to mostly leaves for additional dry bedding in the winter months. All of these changes were like night and day to the time before when I intentionally closed every single opening except the roof vents and the pop door in attempts to keep the coop warmer...those worked in the opposite manner, trapping humidity from the chickens and the bedding inside to chill the birds and keep things damp. Now my coop was light, airy and warm....even in subzero temps it was registering 10 degrees warmer than outside temps at my roost level! Adjustable ventilation can be achieved in many ways...with flaps that can be closed, use of floor furnace vents mounted at various heights in the coop wall that can be open or closed, curtains over openings, etc. I've even seen people use the exterior mountings for dryer vents on their coop to provide draft free ventilation. Didn't mean to write a book...sorry. :gig Here is a pic with some of the adjustable vents open....the windows on either side of the door are open and the feed bag curtain on the top half of the door is left open.... And one with the little side windows closed but the top half of them cannot be closed by the use of the little doors....they can if need be, be adjusted with just a flap of feed sack over them on really windy, subzero days. On those days, I've even closed that curtain on the top half of the door, but those days are rare as the wind usually blows from west to east on this coop. Under the roosts I leave the pop door open no matter the temps or wind, as I have a wall opposite the pop door to block the wind from blowing directly into the coop there. That's another way to adapt ventilation...to have a diversion that blocks direct wind from entering the coop while still allowing air flow.
Oooh, so much snow. It looks insulating. With all that open area, a lot of people would think their birds would freeze. But like you, I know better. The history and sequence of your ventilation adventures are instructive, and I am fast approaching your midway point. OK, so I've got some idea of how much open space I need to have. I can cut most of the top of the end sections away, cut windows on the doors and ends. The bottom 18" along the Lee (east) side is plywood, and I can put in a number of vents. My sense is that the clear tarp will help keep things warm. I like the use your curtains, also how the end is set back. I did a small prototype using just tempered hardboard for the ends, with the front end set back somewhat like yours. I just made a cut out for the pop door because I'm not closing pop doors anymore, and I put a 2x4 roost in about 30" off the ground - it's not a very tall shelter - and 2 cocks are doing very well in it. It's pretty ugly, though, made from an extra 10x6 leftover silver tarp. I don't have trees here or I would use leaves for bedding; hay works all right for me, and if I throw scratch on it now and then, they scratch it up and keep it from getting too compacted. I think it will help a lot to have the tarp come forward and down some past the end of the coop to keep snow from blowing in. Easy to do. I have some birds that prefer to free range and roost in what I think are exposed locations. They are doing well, though, and one or two are still laying eggs in a Dogloo. They like the Dogloos. I have lots I can do and you've given me some great ideas. You probably made your curtains, but did you buy the supports? What kind of fabric did you use? It's a lot easier to build in ventilation when you don't have to be worrying about whether your birds will get too cold. Many thanks for your thoughtful help.
 
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I had every intention of sewing a cutesy curtain for that door but life takes hold and it never happened....but I found a plastic feed sack with both ends cut open fit that spot almost exactly, so I place it there when the winter really gets rough in Jan/Feb/Mar and keep it pushed to one side unless the wind is swirling in all directions and blowing into that opening...usually only when the snow is deep and temps sink below zero. Directly across from that door is my roosting birds, though they are 8 ft. deep into the structure.

The curtain rods I bought but one can do the exact same thing with a few pieces of twine and some eye screws or nails. I'm not one for getting to complicated or costy.

That snow was lovely but as soon as I took that pic I flexed the wire on the hoop of the coop to bring most of it down. The top part stayed but the snow on the sides all fell off in great sheets to land along the base of the coop. Then I swept off the sides near the back, so removed all that insulation in favor of sunlight.

Sounds like you are getting it all settled out and you'll likely change it as you go along, as I have done. I don't think coop tweaking ever really stops, do you?
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