Preventing chick death OR why do they die?

[spatulagirl]

I am curious about the normal percentage of unpreventable chick death vs preventable chick death. How much is avoidable and how much of it is out of control?

I know that losing chicks is normal but I would like to minimize it as much as possible. I lost a 6 week old a week ago (just keeled over in the grow out pen) and woke up this morning to two dead chicks in the brooder. Now this is out of about 40 chicks/younger chickens of all different ages but I am trying really hard to keep things like this from happening. Prior to these deaths, the chicks were all fine.

I do not feed medicated food (we do non-gmo/non-soy feed from Hilands Naturals) and they get ACV in the water. I check for pasty butt daily and change bedding every day.

In the grow out pen, it is just a cheap hoop house half covered in tarp with some roosts. It is in the garden where I move it and the chicks can weed between the beds. They don't have bedding but they get the same food and lots of fresh air, grass and bugs.

I prefer natural methods of chicken farming over chemicals, vaccinations and antibiotics. I don't know if this makes my loss rate high or not.

 

[sumi]

This may answer some of your questions:

Some causes of EARLY CHICK MORTALITY

I've lost some chicks to obvious causes like pasty butt or predators, but also some mysterious deaths with no apparent cause. Though those were thankfully few.

 

[funkgirl27]

Hi ill be a new chick owner soon and my website gives some good detail on pasty but if you would like to check it out www.wichitabackyardchickens.webs.com happy chicken keeping

 

[A.T. Hagan]

I do not ordinarily brood less than twenty five chicks or poults at a time and usually fifty to sixty in each batch.

If I have mail ordered them and lost some in the first forty eight hours I attribute it to transport shock. I've been keeping birds for a long time so I know my brooder is in good order, they get sugar/vinegar in their water for the first eight to twelve hours then just vinegar after that; their bedding is clean and dry; and their heat is appropriate. But neither I or the hatchery can control what happens to them in route so sometimes there are simply going to be losses. My worst was about a quarter of the order and I've had others where I never lost a one. All went alive into the brooder and came out alive when it was time to go to the grow-out pen. One or two in the first forty eight hours I don't get uptight about so long as I don't see any obvious symptoms of something that should concern me.

Pasty butt is easy to spot and treat but you have to keep your eyes open and check often. This is particularly the case when you have a lot of chicks as one or three can be easy to miss in the moving mass of down. After the first seventy two hours if it hasn't happened it probably won't unless something stresses the birds. Pasty butt is primarily a stress reaction. Keep their stress to a minimum and it likely won't happen.

The same with coccidiosis in the brooder. Keep their water CLEAN, fresh, and plentiful. Keep their bedding DRY and don't allow it to get nasty. If it starts to stink and/or draw a lot of flies it is high time to change it. You are not using medicated feed and that's your call to make but it would give you some extra insurance.

Grow-out pens are a different story. If at all possible keeps yours on clean ground as in has not had any birds on it for a year or so. That will lessen the likelihood of disease and parasite build-up. Not eliminate it, but reduce it. If you can't do that then ask Speckled Hen about the lengths she has to go to with coccidiosis prevention with her birds.

With either brooder or grow-out pen the importance of clean, fresh, plentiful water, fresh feed, and not allowing overcrowding cannot be overstated. Proper attention to those three things will prevent most problems from every occurring. Also, do not mix birds from different sources unless you have a high confidence they are all clean. I would not hesitate say, to mix birds from the two hatcheries I regularly buy from. But no way would I mix chicks from a swap or a small-scale breeder with those birds. Bad biosecurity that could spread problems to all of them.

In a nutshell in the brooder with birds that have just hatched or were shipped in I don't get uptight about one or two losses unless they are showing symptoms that concern me. Some are simply "failure to thrive." I don't ordinarily have any losses in my grow-out pens that are not accidents (crushed, etc.) but even there so long as it's limited to one or two (not close together in time) I don't get uptight about it if they showed no obvious symptoms.

 

[Erica]

Hi spatulagirl,

I would be a little concerned about losing chicks at that age. Usually by the time a chick has got past hatching and the first week and is growing normally, there shouldn't be much go wrong.

I hate to say it (being someone who doesn't use medications without good reason), but I think you need to consider coccidiosis. Look for pale faces, hunching, fluffed up appearance, tucked-in neck, quietness, and lower feed consumption. Red droppings aren't always apparent. If you see none of these signs *at all*, then you may be in the clear, but it's really the most common thing to go wrong at this age, so something to think seriously about, and treat if necessary. It may even be worth treating preventively; if you see no more deaths then that would make it likely coccidiosis has had a part to play; if you do see deaths, then at least you've ruled cocci out.

By the way, I don't use medicated feed either, but I use a combination of lowish hatch numbers (under 30 each time), seeding the brooder right from the start (day one) with a handful of adult pen soil (so they get exposure right away), and most importantly feeding soured milk regularly. I've read threads where ACV gets a good rap as a cocci preventive, but I'm not sure how reliable it is, whereas milk is a known preventive. But by far the most vital thing is graduated exposure, and it has to begin on day one, not when the birds go from their nice clean brooder onto the ground (unless as A.T. Hagan says the ground hasn't had birds on it for about a year, and even then you have to move them every day for several weeks, slowly increasing time between moves... Even then a sudden bout of warm wet weather can see a bout of cocci).

Sorry to go on about cocci, as it's not completely on-topic... If you can rule it out, great. In my experience there can be occasional losses as birds mature, but it should be very, very rare. This can be due to tiny congenital issues that didn't show up earlier, or to something in the feed (e.g. aflatoxins from mold). Conditions like runting-stunting are partly from relying on finely ground processed meals (e.g. in pellets) and partly viral. In most cases you see stunting before you see deaths. Sudden deaths in healthy-looking birds need investigation.

I just lost one chick due apparently to a gizzard problem (I did a necropsy: the entry into the gizzard was malformed). That was my first loss in about 4 hatches, but then I only hatch around 20-25 birds each time, and I don't hatch back-to-back (i.e. I leave 3 weeks between settings). This does help reduce cocci loading in the brooder.

Sorry, that was a lot of words, but I hope it's useful.
Erica

 

[spatulagirl]

Well I just came home from baseball practice and I have another chick close to being dead. She was older than the two that died last night and from my own eggs.

This is the third loss. Could I have too many chicks in the brooder? I am going to seperate them tonight. I have never done this many before and maybe that is the problem.

I am now thinking about giving them medicated feed. I am starting to freak out.

No symptoms prior. All birds checked for pasty butt with butts wiped.

 

[spatulagirl]

Ok she just died. I am researching Coccidiosis right now. I had never even thought of that. How long do I have before it wipes out all the chicks? What am I suppose to do to try and save them all?

 

[A.T. Hagan]

As you are continuing to lose chicks you need to take action.

If you are not feeding medicated feed I would get them on it right away. Do a search on "coccidiosis symptoms" and see if your birds are exhibiting any of those. If so then the medication of choice is Corrid. Many feed stores will carry it.

Also, how old is the feed you are currently using? There should be a manufacture date somewhere on the bag, usually on the bottom seam tape that sews the bag closed. If it's more than three months old that could be a problem. Additionally how fresh does the feed appear? Any discoloration? Any dampness or clumping? Any signs of mold or mildew? If you see any of that then discontinue that feed immediately as it may be mold contaminated which can be bad news for birds. If you see any visible signs of mold be careful not to inhale any dust from it as mold spores can be bad for you as well.

Overcrowding usually reveals itself in feather picking and/or cannibalism. If you're not seeing any signs like that then the problem probably lies elsewhere.

 

[spatulagirl]

Looks like coccidiosis . Thank you for pointing it out to me! I researched the symptoms last night. Lost a fourth chick over night. Another one is looking bad.

I am running to the feed store to get meds and medicated food as soon as my kids are dressed.

No moldy food here, although it is about 3 months old. It looks 100% fine.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My grow out pen is on clean, bird free soil. I never knew about seeding the brooder with soil from the adult pen. Once I get them healthy I will read more about how to make sure this never happens again.[/FONT]

 

[spatulagirl]

I have medicated food and dosed the water with Corid. Two chicks were given dosed water by mouth. One chick has a mushy crop

This stuff moves so fast! Thank you so much for raising red flags. I had never lost a chick before and was wondering if it was because I had only brooded 5-10 at a time before. This was my first large scale brood and it is not going well!

Anything else I can do or do I just sit back and wait for the medicine to work?